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post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkpowder
I guess one learns new things every day!


Point taken. After all, it is the final sound that matters. Price may tell you approximately how good a component is, but whether the component synergises well with other components in the chain can only be determined through listening. I might add that my comments are based on a lot of assumptions. Of course, there will be amps that cost a fraction of what they are really worth soundwise. (eg Parasound JC1) There will also be those components that cost more than their sound is worth. It's just from my experience (albeit not a lot), that a 5k amp with a "5k amp sound" won't, in general, be able to drive a pair of 10k speakers with a "10k speaker sound" to their full potential. Hence, not doing the speakers justice.

Having good amp-speaker synergy doesn't necessarily mean that you're driving a pair of speakers to their desired performance (not necessarily the peak performance).


Hence twice the price. 130W is really quite a lot of extra power . Going from a 5k preamp/amp to a 10k preamp/amp is bound to bring a whole lot of extra goodies.

Have you had a chance to try the class D amps? those bad boys have stupendous amount of power.

Also you get the usual suspects of the pass labs and the krells. They have even more power.

I find I would never use the kind of power. It would be more for low level listening. Unless of course I was using a speaker which proved somewhat difficult like a set of appogee scintillas or something nuts like that.

So for my uses desired performance and peak performace don't enter the equation for me. I just look at amp/speaker integration. I find if you can get this then desired performance will come this way.

Can I ask you. If you found the salesperson a little off. Why didn't you try another dealer for the Sonus. Was it a lack of other dealers which stocked the Sonus?
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRedwings19
Have you had a chance to try the class D amps? those bad boys have stupendous amount of power.

Also you get the usual suspects of the pass labs and the krells. They have even more power.

I find I would never use the kind of power. It would be more for low level listening. Unless of course I was using a speaker which proved somewhat difficult like a set of appogee scintillas or something nuts like that.
No I haven't tried Pass Labs and Krells, but I've heard good things about their products. Their massive monoblocks are quite scary I too would have no use for such power amps. I simply don't have the space to put such gear. Also, they're probably very $$$. I've never asked for the price so I wouldn't know.

EDIT: I'm surfing on Pass Labs' website atm. Their top of the line amps happen to be very low in power and only run at 8ohms. Is there any reason why they suggest that low power = higher fidelity?
post #18 of 30
The below links are into 8ohm

Here's the 350 w.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1161614609

Here the 600w.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1161551604

Here the 1kw.
http://www.passlabs.com/amplifiers/x1000_5.htm

Look at that price for the 600w pair monoblocks what a great price.

The power rating goes up when impedance halvs. They are just too lazy to put it in. So for the 350w into 8ohms it will go @700into 4ohms and then 1400into 2 ohms.

Most manufacturers state the 8ohm load.

Usually low powered amps are just as good as high powered ones. If matched with an easy to drive speaker.

I mean look at the SET amps or tube amps. More often than not they have much lower power rating then their SS equivalents. Yet partnered with high sensitive, easy load speakers and then sing without problems. Like horn speakers for instance. While it is always good to have enough power. I generally don't pay attention to it as much as I do speaker impedances and sensitivity and how much current the amp will deliver.

It's a shame you didn't get the sonus as i would of liked to know how they worked out with the chord. I have heard the chord stuff but as of yet not been able to find a dealer close to me which stocks the sonus range and I do feel from what I have read they might suit my tastes.
post #19 of 30
Thanks for the links. I live in HK so audiogon is not an option for me

Apart from the fact that the salesman being a tad cocky and rude, there wasn't much I could try the Cremonas with. The only amps in the room were Burmesters. They had the full Burmester range in the room (yes, even the Ref range!). They also had a pair of Stradivaris, which looked absolutely gorgeous. As the Burmester range was too expensive, I gave up on the Cremonas too. I refused to buy a set-up that I couldn't listen to beforehand. The entry level Burmester amps and CDP didn't perform to an acceptable standard. When I got to the performance and power that I wanted, the prices were already sky-high ($20k for power amp (911 MK3) + another $16k for preamp (011) ). The Cremonas did sing rather nicely though. Too bad about the price...
post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkpowder
Thanks for the links. I live in HK so audiogon is not an option for me

Apart from the fact that the salesman being a tad cocky and rude, there wasn't much I could try the Cremonas with. The only amps in the room were Burmesters. They had the full Burmester range in the room (yes, even the Ref range!). They also had a pair of Stradivaris, which looked absolutely gorgeous. As the Burmester range was too expensive, I gave up on the Cremonas too. I refused to buy a set-up that I couldn't listen to beforehand. The entry level Burmester amps and CDP didn't perform to an acceptable standard. When I got to the performance and power that I wanted, the prices were already sky-high ($20k for power amp (911 MK3) + another $16k for preamp (011) ). The Cremonas did sing rather nicely though. Too bad about the price...

What a coincidence. I am looking to partner sonus faber up with the burmester power amps. Although you are looking at retail prices I would never buy anything new. I always buy used.

I am hoping a used 032 will pop up in audiogon. Although I feel I may be in for a long wait.

I have been to some of the audio places in HK.

They have some very nice audio stored there if a little cramped and not ideal to hold an audition. I generally tend to home audition especially if you are gonna spend any kind of money. Regardless if it is under 1k or silly prices. If I can't home audition I just go elsewhere.

I tend to find in general the HK stores either tend to cater for the budget side or the stupidly high end. But there seems to be a serious lack of stores which deal in mid level products.

You know you have all your sony's, kenwood, jvc etc. and then you go into the store and It like all the top end stuff like burmester, dcs, teac esoteric. etc.

If you feel like trying out some audio components but don;t wan to deal with cocky slesman or insane prices take a look at an audiogon dealer named audiosg. They are based in singapore/malaysia if I remember correctly and tehy deal in all kind of audio products. The best thing is they have fairly compeitive prices and usually more often than not they use 220-240v components. And they will ship anywhere in the world.

There is also another audiogon dealer based in HK he goes by the name of LaFish. I have dealt with him a few times. His prices are okay but you can haggle with him. He stocks a lot of stuff as well.

Although I have heard of one headfier who had a less than ideal transaction with him. But seeming you are based in HK and if you have time maybe he would let you audition some stuff.

Would you be kind as to PM the dealership you went to. I might pop in their one day. Thanks
post #21 of 30


Linkwitz Orions, hands down, as long as you have the room for them...they need a good amount of room from the front wall (however, most "best of breed" speakers are fussy about placement). Most natural soundstage, holographic imaging, & visceral impact of any speakers I've heard.

Speakers & amps sold together for around $10k...that leaves you $5000 for a preamp & source. One of the best bargains in high-end because you buy directly from the designer...a more commercial offering and you'd pay at least 40% more for the dealer.
post #22 of 30
Thread Starter 
Sorry I must have mislead you guys, I will try to be more clear. First, thanks for the comments I appreciate them. I meant a budget of $15k new or used for both speakers and amp and possibly the preamp. I have already budgeted away some for the source and cabling.
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarke68

Linkwitz Orions, hands down, as ... One of the best bargains in high-end because you buy directly from the designer...a more commercial offering and you'd pay at least 40% more for the dealer.
Those drivers look familiar. I don't know if it is the case with linkwitz or not but it reminds me of a personal criteria in choosing speakers, and once into the multiple thousands of dollars I desire that drivers are made in-house rather than outsourced from SEAS or Scanspeak or such as is the case for most.

In an apartment I'd look at small floorstanders. Standmounted speakers + sub are a pain in the rear that never seem to interlock properly. Hate 'em.
post #24 of 30
How about some ATC SCM-50ASL




Coupled with a Bryston BP26DA / 2B SST combination - If you have the money, there's nothing better at this price range. Test them out, you'll be astounded. You can also get a a phono stage (MM £400 / MC £900) and even a DAC (£1000 extra) - so it's a versatile and very upgradable bit of kit.

post #25 of 30
Those drivers in the Linkwitz are from the SEAS Excel Series and are some of the best drivers around. I wouldn't get too caught up on "in-house" drivers as you'd be surprised how many of the top dollar speakers use drivers from the likes of SEAS or Scanspeak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth
Those drivers look familiar. I don't know if it is the case with linkwitz or not but it reminds me of a personal criteria in choosing speakers, and once into the multiple thousands of dollars I desire that drivers are made in-house rather than outsourced from SEAS or Scanspeak or such as is the case for most.
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRedwings19
Would you be kind as to PM the dealership you went to. I might pop in their one day. Thanks
Thanks a lot for all the info! Sonus Faber/Burmester is a very good combination. Extremely expensive, but IMO worth their money. If you have the money, then by all means go and get them! My ideal combination would be the Burmester Top Line Equipment with the Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario(sp?). You might be able to get second hand for about 30-50% the retail price.

EDIT: Woops, completely forgot about the Sonus/Burmester dealer.

It's in Langham Place in Mong Kok. Look for this large electronics store called Digital Pavilion (shop 25, Basement Level 2). At first, you won't really know that they sell high end audio, but venture deep into the store past all the digital cameras, LCD/plasmas, PDAs and go into the other room. There'll be a room for B&W/Classe/Rotel and another for Sonus/Jeff Rowland/Burmester. The nice stuff are in the two rooms. There are a lot of low to mid-end hifi stuff in the main area outside the rooms (Sony, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, etc...). They also have a selection of Sennheiser, Shure, Audio-Technica and Etymotic headphones. Ask them for models which are not on display. I got my HD650 from them for around USD$360.

EDIT2: I seem to remember that they have Krell or Pass Labs stuff there too, but I can't remember.

EDIT3: I'm sorry for all the off topic remarks. I'll shut up now...
post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overheat
How about some ATC SCM-50ASL
As was said by one of the UK hifi reviewers (something like) "I challenge any manufacturer to put together a speaker-cable-amplifier package that can approach this performance for anywhere near this price." Reviewers often go off like that but sometimes they're correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tkam
Those drivers in the Linkwitz are from the SEAS Excel Series and are some of the best drivers around. I wouldn't get too caught up on "in-house" drivers as you'd be surprised how many of the top dollar speakers use drivers from the likes of SEAS or Scanspeak.
That's sort of my point. But you're right there are no strict rules or formulas.
I think many speaker makers play the cable game. Put $500 worth of SEAS drivers in a beautifully lacquered box and charge $10K. It's $10K! It's has to sound good!

If I had $15K to spend I'd be looking for diminishing returns and start in the $4K-$6K range. As reasonably priced young upstarts, I wonder what the Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers with NuForce amps sounds like (with a tube pre)? Both are up the street from me but I haven't heard the combo.
post #28 of 30
This is out of date, but the original Mirage M1's paired with a Krell 200S, back in the early 90's. The Mirage bipolar line had a lush midrange that I have still yet to hear, and the Krell's lock onto to the bass drivers of any speaker system with final authority. Audioquest wire rounded out the system with both digital and analogue sources.

Krell can be picked up used everywhere - they are built to milspec and last for decades.

The Mirage's will be more difficult to locate, but if you do find them you will likely be able to get them for only a few hundred for the pair.
post #29 of 30

I remember the Mirages, but I preferred Paradigm bipolar speakers of that era....maybe it was just the shop with the Mirages was hopeless. 

 

The best <$15k rig I heard recently had modded Air Tight SET amps with ELAC speakers. Mind you, those modded amps made even B&W 805s sound good, if you know what I mean. 

post #30 of 30
There are lots of options in your price range, but since you asked for opinions, I think that the audio note speakers can be a pretty good deal, particularly used, and they do not need a lot of power so you have plenty of amp options, many of which might fit in an apartment (unlike some the amps you might want for the Wilson's for instance). Good luck
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