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Power Conditioning: The Next Level - Page 2

post #16 of 64
I'm with Neruda....
post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by raymondlin
David, but does it worth the £350? or is it better to use it for some better components in the future? That is still the question still bugging me and holding me back for getting one.
Raymondlin

Only you can really answer that one. Considering that you and I have roughly the same sort of set up the least you can do is "suck it and see" I definetly wouldnt be without it now!

Given that your cd and amp is what £500 each you are going to have to spent at least £8-900 to get any sort of improvement through upgrading then I would say its a bit of a bargain but thats me. With reference to your comments about better componenets, you could purchase a powerblock now (or a yello one if you are a bit strapped, although they have less effect)and have it improve your current setup, whilst happily knowing that any future components you get will benifit from it as well!
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dhwilkin
My guess would be that it is sort of like cables, in that the better all your other equipment, the more improvement you will hear from power conditioning. Actually, now my curiosity is raised. Hey davidcotton, any chance you can answer this?

Well I wanted to answer this one seperately from Raymondlins question. I basically have a Mid fi system, relatively good cd player and an ok amp. All I know is that things have improved drastically since plugging this thing in! A lot of my cds are on independent record labels and so I thought the improvements would be minimal, WRONG!

Bass now has a kick in it, vocals are much clearer and so on.

With regards to the equipment like I said in Raymondlins reply, you can use the conditioners (however much you want to spend, hey jude )and be happy knowing that the equipment you have now will show the rewards, in fact the differences may be so great that it may put you off upgrading for a while as this has happened to me, then when you do finally upgrade then the power conditioner will be able to help the new equipment as well.

Your best bet if you arnt sure is to find a company or shop that allows thirty days (or whatever)trial and see what differences it makes in your system. Beware that some conditioners take a long time to show there benifets, so dont just plug it in, take a quick listen and then take it out. The powerblock I have took 3-4 weeks to come in. Oh and the picture and sound on the tv and dvd have improved drastically as well, the picture from sky digital now looks amazing .......
post #19 of 64
Hey Jude,
Monster has a new product that seems to compete with the PS Audio stuff. It's a regenerator, not a passive filter. I think the pricing is competitive with PSAudio as well in terms of watts regenerated per dollar (it's $1500 from audio advisor). Probably most attractive to folks with a Home theater system and high-powered amp. No idea how it sounds, but it looks pretty cool.

http://www.monstercable.com/product_...r_AVS2000.html

markl
post #20 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Neruda
Jude, you're starting to scare us. seriously.
Neruda and coolvij, I can understand the doubtful looks I get about ceramic spacers between interconnects, Sorbothane under SACD/CD players, Shakti Stones (yeah, I'm thinking of one of these too), etc., but the quality of power being fed to audio components (and even video components) is one area of "tweaking" that I firmly believe in -- now it's just a question of me finding the right power solutions within my budget. With high quality audio components, what can often be one of the big factors separating the higher end products of a brand from their lower end sibling products in that brand is the quality of the power supplies.

I don't want to spend too much more on my system without first making sure that the very first "component" of my system in the chain -- the power -- is well taken care of. The Brick Wall was a good addition, but I feel strongly that there is significantly more that can be done beyond the Brick Wall. I feel confident -- based on much online reading (Audio Asylum and professional reviews) -- that the solution(s) I've selected within my budget will provide me with what I'm looking for -- I'll let y'all know, of course.

I strongly urge everyone to read some of the reference links I posted (B-P-T's site has a nice summary of the concept, and Equi=Tech's reference reading goes into much more detail). I put many of these articles into my Palm with Coolet, and I find them fascinating reads. Also search for reviews on Audio Asylum from owners. There are some professional reviews on the Web too.

Several top recording studios are using balanced power, and I don't get the impression that the studios buy into some of the more questionable tweaks that audiophiles make. There's solid science in this concept.


Quote:
Originally posted by Tides
Jude~ I know where you live. so.....
I will wait another year or 2 before I pay you a vist with some friends
Tides, yeah, wait a year or two as, by then, my system will likely have been further improved!


Quote:
Originally posted by Wing
Have you tried testing your power solutions with any measuring instruments? I think I saw some company called AudioPrism(?) selling such devices. I have a Monster Power HTS 1000 which I think is a load of bull because I can still hear switches being turned on and off from sound card output while my PC is plugged into it.
Wing, no I haven't tested the power solutions with any measuring instruments. Well, that's not to say I didn't try, but (and this is no joke) metal oxide varistors emitted a small puff of smoke the last time I tried (not to mention the fact that I tripped one of my home mains circuit breakers) -- don't ask.

But this is something I did do research on, and a good balanced power solution will have measurable, accurate division of power across hot-ground / neutral-ground, hopefully as close to perfect voltage split as possible (one review of a B-P-T unit I read -- in Secret's of Home Theater and Hi-Fi -- showed that the unit split voltage perfectly, resolved to a tenth of a volt).


Quote:
Originally posted by bootman
I for one, find this very interesting. Jude thanks for the BPT link. I was looking for something a bit more affordable than the PS Audio units. The Jr looks very interesting.
bootman, I was also looking for something more affordable than the Power Plants. I came this close to selecting the BP-Jr., but was able to make the budget stretch to the BP-3. If I like the BP-3, I may find the BP-Jr. in my office rig.


Quote:
Originally posted by blr
Jude.
Though I can't comment on any of these I'd just vask you. Since you're investing so much in power conditioning (nothing wrong with that) how about your power cords?
I mean after cleaning this power so much you wouldn't like any EMI/RFI to be picked up by the cords.
Yes, I've thought of this too. I just noticed that B-P-T also makes IEC power cords, so I may order one of their 6-footers -- I have at least a question or two about these cords that I'll ask Chris from B-P-T about.


Quote:
Originally posted by BenG
I'm very interested in Jude's reports on the BP, and any comparisions to the Ultimate Outlet.

Special attention should be given to whether they noticeably CHOKE DYNAMICS or INTRODUCE ARTIFACTS, even with head stuff. (I've never met a non-balanced conditioner that didn't)
Actually, BenG, I didn't find my Brick Wall choked dynamics at all, but I'm only using it with a dedicated head-fi rig (as opposed to, say, a 500 watt per channel rig with loudspeakers). The Brick Wall is not a balanced conditioner, but is primarily a surge protector that also conditions. Just for the sake of experimentation, I will try the B-P-T Balanced Power Isolator in place of the Brick Wall unit just to see how it sounds without the Brick Wall there, but the intention is to use the Brick Wall for surge protection ahead of the B-P-T (which is why I did not order the optional MOV(metal oxide varistor)-based surge protection circuit for my B-P-T). Of course, I'll let you know what I find.


Quote:
Originally posted by davidcotton
It always amazes me that some people have serious doubts about mains conditioners etc If those people had spent x amount on a interconnect or cable then they would have been well pleased, but mention mains cables/power conditioners and they go all sceptical on us.
davidcotton, you'll certainly get no skepticism from me on the importance of good power -- I'm a firm believer. Even my Brick Wall had a positive effect on the lowering of my rig's noise floor, but I am hoping for a dramatically lower noise floor and improved dynamics with balanced power (and I hope my expectations are realistic, which, based on much reading, I think they are). Additionally, Equi=Tech has shown balanced power can reduce digital jitter significantly (it is known -- not just theorized -- that poor power delivery can make digital jitter worse).


Quote:
Originally posted by KR...
....Genghis Khan Limited Edition....
Not that I'm actually in the market for such an expensive cable (we're talking like thousands of dollars for this Genghis Khan Limited Edition), but I am waiting to see how the ElectraGlide controversy shapes up on Audio Asylum (if you're wondering what I'm talking about, go to Audio Asylum and search their cable forum for "roysen"). I'm no expert, but I have a hard time accepting that I would ever be able to justify that amount of money on a power cord.


Quote:
Originally posted by dhwilkin
My guess would be that it is sort of like cables, in that the better all your other equipment, the more improvement you will hear from power conditioning. Actually, now my curiosity is raised.
dhwilkin, I agree totally. Again, I decided I don't want to spend any more money on my rig (SACD/CD player, headphone amp, or headphones) until I've taken measures to improve what is, in many ways, the first link in the chain. The more I read, the more I feel that the quality of AC is something most audiophiles neglect. The effects of my Brick Wall were noticeable. Again, I feel quite certain there is a lot more that can be done, and I hope I've found a big step with balanced power -- we'll see.


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Hoff
I aggree completey with Jude, blr and Davidcotton. Reducing noise in audio systems can yield big rewards in musical satisfaction and is unfortunately overlooked by most users. How can any good equipment reach it's potential when the AC is adding so much grunge?....Why use balanced AC power? Balanced AC gives the same reduction in noise as does balanced audio circuits (used by professional recording studios and the best high-end audio gear). By having equal and opposite phse 60V lines, the common mode noise is cancelled, creating a lowered noise floor (see Judes post for links on balanced power)....
Chris, I'm glad you joined! It has been fun talking to you about balanced power on the telephone -- thanks for taking the time out of your Friday night (heheh, and Saturday) to discuss it with me.

I have a question about your power cords, by the way -- what kind of shielding is used on them? And can you give more detail about the cords' construction (stranding, etc.)? I may be interested in one for my HeadRoom Max (I just noticed on your web site that B-P-T also makes IEC-terminated power cords for other components).


Quote:
Originally posted by markl
Monster has a new product that seems to compete with the PS Audio stuff. It's a regenerator, not a passive filter. I think the pricing is competitive with PSAudio as well in terms of watts regenerated per dollar (it's $1500 from audio advisor). Probably most attractive to folks with a Home theater system and high-powered amp. No idea how it sounds, but it looks pretty cool.

http://www.monstercable.com/product_...r_AVS2000.html
markl, thanks for the link. Yes, I've seen that before, but I can't find much information on how it works, if it outputs balanced power, what the specs are, etc. If anyone else here knows more about it, I'd be interested in finding out what you know. Admittedly, though, it's more than I want to spend anyway.
post #21 of 64
Well, I was being silly with that insane powercord.
But, for the rest of us, I belive that MIT has jusr released a new line of powercords.


Z-Cord I: $100
Z-Cord II : $175
*NEW* Z-Cord III :$695

And here are the new Z-Series AC power cords :


Z-Cord AC I –featuring patented Z-Series wide-bandwidth power line filtration and power factor correction.
The Z-Cord AC I utilizes MIT’s unique conductor configurations and low-resistance silver-clad conductors with the addition of MIT patented Z-Series filtration networks (optimized for the most common problem audio band power line frequencies) to provide cleaner power for any component with an IEC style (removable) AC cord.
Starting at $1495.00



Z-Cord ACV –featuring extended video bandwidth Z-Series power line filtration.
Like the AC I and AC II, The Z-Cord ACV takes the unique conductor configurations and low-resistance silver-clad conductors of the AC 1 and builds upon it by providing AC power filtration that is specifically tuned for video frequencies (Z-Series video circuitry). When combined with the AC II or Z-Center, the ACV will provides complete power conditioning for the entire audio and video frequency ranges.
Starting at $2195.00



Z-Cord AC II –featuring Z-Stabilizer ultrawide-bandwidth power line filtration and power factor correction.
The Z-Cord AC II takes the unique conductor configurations and low-resistance silver-clad conductors of the AC I and builds upon it by providing the complete wide-bandwidth AC filter and power factor correction circuitry originally found in the legendary MIT Z-Stabilizer. Two inline network enclosures contain the patented MIT parallel networks providing a Z-Stabilizer in an ultra high-performance AC cord.
Starting at $2895.00


And lastly, here's their power conditioner :



• Patented Z-Circuitry filtering for pure, clean power
• Complete OVP overvoltage, surge and spike protection
• Z-Isolator circuitry prevents noise from entering and
...leaving sensitive analog and digital source components
• Combines a Z-Stabilizer and a Z-Iso-Strip for all-in-one
...power line treatment of smaller systems
• Cleaner sound, clearer pictures


The Z-Center™ conveniently combines the functions of a Z-Stabilizer and a Z-Iso-Strip on a single chassis to provide power line treatment to complete audio or home theater systems. It provides power factor correction and filtering for amplifiers, preamps and source components. It also provides ground-loop isolated, super-filtered power to sensitive source components, especially digital components, such as CD or DVD players.
The Z-Center's patented Z-Circuitry cleans up and transmits the fundamental power line frequency (50 or 60 Hz) while it absorbs other noise frequencies from the AC power line. The Z-Center™ not only prevents noise from entering sensitive audio and video components, it prevents noise from leaving them, as well.

The Z-Center employs MIT’s unique dual-transformer Z Isolator filter circuitry to isolate sensitive analog or digital source components from amplifiers and other noise-producing components. It also prevents ground-induced noise from being carried in power line ground loops between equipment. The Z-Isolator circuitry also provides additional filtering for purer power delivery to the connected source component(s).

In addition to its vital noise filtering, the Z-Center's OVP circuitry protects your valuable equipment against damage due to power line surges, spikes, and overvoltage conditions.

Though you may be familiar with power line noise, you cannot know how seriously it affects your system's performance until you experience its absence. In most systems, the effects of the Z-Center's filtering and power line treatment are immediately obvious -- you'll notice improvements in accuracy, detail and clarity, with more natural, lifelike reproduction of both sound and picture.

The Z-Center is available with either a silver or black faceplate
- with or without rack-mount ears.

Starting at $1495.00


Here's their webpage : http://www.mitcables.com/
post #22 of 64
Quote:
Not that I'm actually in the market for such an expensive cable (we're talking like thousands of dollars for this Genghis Khan Limited Edition), but I am waiting to see how the ElectraGlide controversy shapes up on Audio Asylum (if you're wondering what I'm talking about, go to Audio Asylum and search their cable forum for "roysen"). I'm no expert, but I have a hard time accepting that I would ever be able to justify that amount of money on a power cord
While I posted that as a joke, I mean who in their right mind would dare pay that much for a power cord? I had no idea just how much of a joke it really was, for anyone who wants to read it, here's the link :

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cab...ges/30632.html
post #23 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by KR...
Well, I was being silly with that insane powercord.
But, for the rest of us, I belive that MIT has jusr released a new line of powercords.

Yeah, I knew you were joking, man. And thanks for the links to, and info on, the MIT stuff.
post #24 of 64

BPT Power Cords

Jude:
Our power cords are designed to pass a lot of current and reject RFI at a reasonable price point. Nothing too fancy just lots of copper/silver/teflon with a shield. We use Mil-Spec 10 awg silver plated copper with a Teflon jacket. The hot and neutral are a twisted pair (to reduce RFI) the ground is not included in the twist, to reduce capacitive coupling and provide a shorter path to earth ground. The heavy gauge silver/copper has very low resistance in order to pass the most current. The Teflon is the best jacketing, having a short dielectric memory (less capacitance so it sounds faster). We then cover with a tinned copper braid for shielding (9 awg) to further reduce RFI and EMI. Next is a polyolefin jacket and then a braided covering that looks good and resists abrasion. The C-7 is the same design with double the wire. This sucka is excellent for power amps. Our power cords are an exceptional value and contain no mystic oils, cryo freezing or blessings from a Tibetan monastery.
post #25 of 64
Thread Starter 
Chris, what is that braided outer covering made of? I can't find the specifics on that on your site.
post #26 of 64

BP-2 review

Here is a review of the BP-2 that may be worth looking at...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-9-2001.html
post #27 of 64
I found some other power balancing products.

Here is one by a company called Cinepro.

Here are some by furman.


Enjoy!
post #28 of 64
Thread Starter 
Okay, I ordered a B-P-T C-7 powercord for my Max (check your e-mail Chris). This is outta control!

Chris, I'm still curious about what the C-7's outer braided covering is made of.

smatt, thanks for the review link. That's one of the reviews I read, and one of the things that convinced me to order the BP-3.

bootman, thanks for those links. Yes, Furman and Cinepro are other units I've seen, but they're still out of my target price range. I think there's a Cinepro unit for sale on Audiogon right now (if it hasn't sold already).
post #29 of 64
In Terms of power, the PS Audio has gotten 100s of excellent reviews and has received best accessory of the year award at stereophile.
Anyhow, the PS Audio 300 has done wonders in my system. Brightness and digital harshness has disappeared while at the same time an increase in overall detail and an amazing lowering of noise floor. As a result, redbook CDs now sound more analog like. Before, I had always thought grados had a harsh treble as one of their characteristics. Now I know that its just my bad power. In short, this upgrade has brought my system to another level that I never thought possible. I would have to say of all the tweaks that I have done including shatki stones, interconnects, and power cords, this has offered the most improvement of them all, if not combined! Moreover, the PS Audio runs warm, but not extremely hot as my entire system operates well under 50 watts. Lastly, I love the multiwave capabilty of the PS Audio. Currently I have it on SS1 preset which to my ears have excellent dynamic range and wide soundstage. I also like the warmer, but mellower preset of PS2.

Also, if you are interested in getting the best power cord possible, I suggest getting the BMI Whale Elite Power Cord which has garnered 100's of positive reviews at audiogon. Many at audiogon have said it easily competes with $2000+ cords. I myself owned one before and has brought my DCT-1 to another level increasing in bass tightness, presence and a much lowering in noise floor. Anyhow, I plan to get another Whale cord for my newly arrived Sony SCD-1
post #30 of 64
Quote:
my newly arrived Sony SCD-1
*Vertigo-1 humbly bows to the number 1 man...*

And when I say number 1 man, I mean it! He's da man with the Sony SCD-1 +Tara Labs Air 1 + Holmes Powell DCT-1 + Grado HP-1!
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