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Grado RS-1 vs PS-1 vs GS1000 - Page 2

post #16 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
Hey I want in - San Ramon
We're both not in any hurry, so it may be few weeks. I kind of want to settle down with what I got for now before thinking about changing anything. If I prefer tubes in this test, I'll have to make the switch. Just when I thought I was done
post #17 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
The RS-1 fell third to me for 2 reasons: bass and a bit less refinement - BUT by far the best value - especially used (RS-1 ~$500, GS-1000 ~$900, PS-1 ~$1,400).
Although $1400 was the original retail price, I've seen a few used PS-1s going for around $2000 lately. They are pretty much on par with the L3000 these days.
post #18 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
Hey I want in - San Ramon
I feel a Bay Area mini-meet in the making
post #19 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
I feel a Bay Area mini-meet in the making
This is probably a better idea. I won't be able to host it though. I'm in an apartment and it was great for just one person coming by but that's about it.

For some reason, I've never wanted to go to any meets. If I go, it means I have a problem. Also, if you don't go, you're less tempted to spend more or be dissatisfied with you current setup.
post #20 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdone
For some reason, I've never wanted to go to any meets. If I go, it means I have a problem. Also, if you don't go, you're less tempted to spend more or be dissatisfied with you current setup.
A Head-Fi Meet attendee with "iamdone" as nick is kind of an oxymoron.
post #21 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdone
This is probably a better idea. I won't be able to host it though. I'm in an apartment and it was great for just one person coming by but that's about it.

For some reason, I've never wanted to go to any meets. If I go, it means I have a problem. Also, if you don't go, you're less tempted to spend more or be dissatisfied with you current setup.
I just think it would be refreshing to hear some things for myself instead of this blind buying that we always do. I don't have the space either as I'm in a glorified apartment they call a Condo but am happy to bring gear somewhere!

iamdone - I know this is a bit off topic but how do your GS1000 compare to the HD650/Zu specifically for classical?
post #22 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
I just think it would be refreshing to hear some things for myself instead of this blind buying that we always do. I don't have the space either as I'm in a glorified apartment they call a Condo but am happy to bring gear somewhere!

iamdone - I know this is a bit off topic but how do your GS1000 compare to the HD650/Zu specifically for classical?
I don't think I can really answer that. I'm not sure if I even listened to any classical on the GS1000. I only have a limited collection and don't listen to classical all that much. I believe there was a thread talking specifically about classical with the GS1000. You might want to start a new thread but now more people have the GS1000 and I'm sure a few might have had the hd650/zu too.

Edit: As I mentioned, an option might be to throw some super-bowls on the PS-1 and you'll have a somewhat close sound to the GS1000. I wish I would have listened longer but I liked what I heard for the few moments. I don't remember what was playing though. I know it wasn't classical.
post #23 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Although $1400 was the original retail price, I've seen a few used PS-1s going for around $2000 lately. They are pretty much on par with the L3000 these days.
The K-1000's are better than the PS-1 to me and not by a litte bit. When I got home I listened to my GS-1000s on my system to compare to iamdones, then to my K-1000s and it seemed to easily differentiate itself from all 3 phones that we were trying that same day. I believe you can get them for under $1K. And with the extra grand you can get a CD player and amp to go with it.

The L3000’s are on par with PS-1? Not from what I’ve read. I am definitely interested in trying the HP1,2 and L3000.

I felt the RS-1 was a value, the GS-1000 was priced about right, and the PS-1 was overpriced at $1,400 (used), but if people want to spend $2K, have at it. I imagine collectors might be driving the price up just like vinyl collectors are jacking up prices for us audiophiles with turn tables like myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
I feel a Bay Area mini-meet in the making
Unfortunately, I’m in the same boat space-wise. I had to turn down hosting a mini meet with some people in Berkeley because I had plans to move. Those plans have been delayed.

Since we aren’t in a rush to do this. I’ll start to think about options. I would love to bring my K-1000s and amp/source. Also, there is a gentleman in Sacramento that has K-1000 with upgraded cable that was interested in letting me hear them, so...

I think there would be enough people to make something happen down the road.
post #24 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
When I got home I listened to my GS-1000s on my system to compare to iamdones,
Just curious, how big of an improvement did you hear?

Another thing to note. Just as I wasn't as impressed with the GS1000 as robm321, he didn't seem as impressed with the PS-1 as I do. We pretty much agreed on how they each sound and what each one does better but personal taste always enters the picture. I think we agree they were all amazing headphone with their own certain flavor.

As I stated before, I agree that the PS-1 is too expensive at $1400. I would have never considered it if I hadn't made the move in steps or if they were unlimited and would lose their value over time. If I was really tight on money, I'd be perfectly happy with the RS-1.
post #25 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
The K-1000's are better than the PS-1 to me and not by a litte bit. When I got home I listened to my GS-1000s on my system to compare to iamdones, then to my K-1000s and it seemed to easily differentiate itself from all 3 phones that we were trying that same day. I believe you can get them for under $1K. And with the extra grand you can get a CD player and amp to go with it.

The L3000’s are on par with PS-1? Not from what I’ve read. I am definitely interested in trying the HP1,2 and L3000.

I felt the RS-1 was a value, the GS-1000 was priced about right, and the PS-1 was overpriced at $1,400 (used), but if people want to spend $2K, have at it. I imagine collectors might be driving the price up just like vinyl collectors are jacking up prices for us audiophiles with turn tables like myself.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the PS-1s deserve to be priced at $2000. I'm only stating what seems to be the current price for them (more or less. There is always people making more or less money for them).

I do prefer the K1000 over the PS-1 too (only from the EAR V20, though). And I prefer the L3000 over the PS-1 too. However I can see people prefering the PS-1 to both of them. Because the PS-1 does some things that no other headphone can do. And if these things are important for you, and there are around 160 available... you probably will end paying for them.

I have the K1000 and the L3000 and still find the PS-1 has a place in my collection. It sounds amazingly good unamped, it has the best bass apart from the L3000 (without the coloration and sometimes "closed" feeling the L3000 can have). I must say that I've been attending live concerts pretty much all my life and there is something really "real" about the timbre of the PS-1s. It sounds more "real" than most high-end cans, apart from a some bass hump that usually compensates the lack of bass on some systems. Besides, it is the best can you can get in foldable form (great for hotels and trips). So yes, I can see people paying $2000 for them. Not because they worth it, but because there is nothing better for some applications/circumstances/tastes. As usual, offer/demand law applies.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that "PS-1 on par to L3000" was price-wise as both seem to command similar prices these days. I won't enter in "pseudo-objective" discussions about which is better. For what is worth it, I'd choose the L3000 for most (but not all) applications/music, but I can see why some people might prefer the PS-1 over the L3000 (and this, by far). Actually I know of some.
post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the PS-1s deserve to be priced at $2000. I'm only stating what seems to be the current price for them (more or less. There is always people making more or less money for them).

I do prefer the K1000 over the PS-1 too (only from the EAR V20, though). And I prefer the L3000 over the PS-1 too. However I can see people prefering the PS-1 to both of them. Because the PS-1 does some things that no other headphone can do. And if these things are important for you, and there are around 160 available... you probably will end paying for them.

I have the K1000 and the L3000 and still find the PS-1 has a place in my collection. It sounds amazingly good unamped, it has the best bass apart from the L3000 (without the coloration and sometimes "closed" feeling the L3000 can have). I must say that I've been attending live concerts pretty much all my life and there is something really "real" about the timbre of the PS-1s. It sounds more "real" than most high-end cans, apart from a some bass hump that usually compensates the lack of bass on some systems. Besides, it is the best can you can get in foldable form (great for hotels and trips). So yes, I can see people paying $2000 for them. Not because they worth it, but because there is nothing better for some applications/circumstances/tastes. As usual, offer/demand law applies.
Nice post
post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdone
Just curious, how big of an improvement did you hear?

Another thing to note. Just as I wasn't as impressed with the GS1000 as robm321, he didn't seem as impressed with the PS-1 as I do. We pretty much agreed on how they each sound and what each one does better but personal taste always enters the picture. I think we agree they were all amazing headphone with their own certain flavor.

As I stated before, I agree that the PS-1 is too expensive at $1400. I would have never considered it if I hadn't made the move in steps or if they were unlimited and would lose their value over time. If I was really tight on money, I'd be perfectly happy with the RS-1.
haha this thread almost seems like a dialogue with us back and forth. I guess it is useful though for those interested so why not ...

There was a pretty big difference. If/when we have the meet, I'll bring my front end. Of course things were stacked in my favor as I listened not only to some harsh redbook CDs but also high quality SACDs (beleive it or not my TT gets even better than both). There's no way around it, a CD player will make a big difference, SACD player bigger still, and vinyl the biggest. Hopefully one day a PC as a front end will compete, but I have yet to hear one that does.

That being said, considering the uber convenience that you have, and the fact that rock music isn't usually recorded or mixed very well except for probably 10% of it compared to classical or jazz, I don't want to lead you down a path that may frustrate you in the end just for that last bit of audiophilia. It's already too late for me

One example is the siblance in that rather bad recording that you played for me. It had a peircing ssss that would clearly make it unlisteneable on the GS-1000 and the RS-1. It even sounded bad on the PS-1 but seemed more rolled off or attenuated in the treble which helped, but also made me wonder about the accuracy of the PS-1 (sounded too smooth for a bad recording). I went home and tried a couple of my worst recordings with siblance and there was no peircing high frequency like that. I did hear the annoying sssss, it just didn't hurt or peirce through. I think the source was the difference considering the nice amp and dac that you have. It also makes me realize why the GS-1000 and K-1000 have such a different affect on people.

That being said, I don't think any of the 3 blew any of the others away and any differences were marginal. Maybe we should have just stuck with the RS-1 and had a reasoneably priced phone that frankly I preferred over the PS-1, GS-1000 on more than a couple of songs.
post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the PS-1s deserve to be priced at $2000. I'm only stating what seems to be the current price for them (more or less. There is always people making more or less money for them).

I do prefer the K1000 over the PS-1 too (only from the EAR V20, though). And I prefer the L3000 over the PS-1 too. However I can see people prefering the PS-1 to both of them. Because the PS-1 does some things that no other headphone can do. And if these things are important for you, and there are around 160 available... you probably will end paying for them.

I have the K1000 and the L3000 and still find the PS-1 has a place in my collection. It sounds amazingly good unamped, it has the best bass apart from the L3000 (without the coloration and sometimes "closed" feeling the L3000 can have). I must say that I've been attending live concerts pretty much all my life and there is something really "real" about the timbre of the PS-1s. It sounds more "real" than most high-end cans, apart from a some bass hump that usually compensates the lack of bass on some systems. Besides, it is the best can you can get in foldable form (great for hotels and trips). So yes, I can see people paying $2000 for them. Not because they worth it, but because there is nothing better for some applications/circumstances/tastes. As usual, offer/demand law applies.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that "PS-1 on par to L3000" was price-wise as both seem to command similar prices these days. I won't enter in "pseudo-objective" discussions about which is better. For what is worth it, I'd choose the L3000 for most (but not all) applications/music, but I can see why some people might prefer the PS-1 over the L3000 (and this, by far). Actually I know of some.
Agree with everything you said - except I preferred the timbre on the wooden Grados more. Sorry I thought you meant performancewise between the L3000 and PS-1. I know what you mean about no other headphone being able to do what the PS-1 does, but that's the case with most phones. I think we agree that pure sound refinement and weight, while sacrificing soundstage give the PS-1 it's place which was why I was interested since the GS-1000 can sound thin like the RS-1. That's why I kept my Senn 600 for a meaty midrange.
post #29 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321
haha this thread almost seems like a dialogue with us back and forth. I guess it is useful though for those interested so why not ...

There was a pretty big difference. If/when we have the meet, I'll bring my front end. Of course things were stacked in my favor as I listened not only to some harsh redbook CDs but also high quality SACDs (beleive it or not my TT gets even better than both). There's no way around it, a CD player will make a big difference, SACD player bigger still, and vinyl the biggest. Hopefully one day a PC as a front end will compete, but I have yet to hear one that does.

That being said, considering the uber convenience that you have, and the fact that rock music isn't usually recorded or mixed very well except for probably 10% of it compared to classical or jazz, I don't want to lead you down a path that may frustrate you in the end just for that last bit of audiophilia. It's already too late for me

One example is the siblance in that rather bad recording that you played for me. It had a peircing ssss that would clearly make it unlisteneable on the GS-1000 and the RS-1. It even sounded bad on the PS-1 but seemed more rolled off or attenuated in the treble which helped, but also made me wonder about the accuracy of the PS-1 (sounded too smooth for a bad recording). I went home and tried a couple of my worst recordings with siblance and there was no peircing high frequency like that. I did hear the annoying sssss, it just didn't hurt or peirce through. I think the source was the difference considering the nice amp and dac that you have. It also makes me realize why the GS-1000 and K-1000 have such a different affect on people.

That being said, I don't think any of the 3 blew any of the others away and any differences were marginal. Maybe we should have just stuck with the RS-1 and had a reasoneably priced phone that frankly I preferred over the PS-1, GS-1000 on more than a couple of songs.
Thanks, that really helps put some perspective on things. I guess some could say the PS-1 might be overkill for my setup but it does have a noticible improvement over the RS-1 as far a refinement goes in my setup.

As far as original source, there is not much more I can do while keeping the convenience. I am tied to the Airport Express. If I had unlimited funds, I found a modded one for $1200 that changes out the clock, upgrades the power supply, does something else to lower jitter, and switches it to a coaxial. If there was just a cheaper mod to replace the clock with a highend one, I'd consider that. Then there are also tube based dacs or highend solid state ones to consider. And finally tube headphone amps.

Anyway, this all just talk since I pretty happy with my current setup. I'm sure if I had a chance to do the test at your place, I'd come back and know what I was missing and would probably have to start upgrading.

I think if I heard this test before buying the PS-1, I'd probably pick the RS-1 just because of the huge price difference and the RS-1 is just as enjoyable in different ways. Since I already own the PS-1, I'm not parting with it. It was my pick as my favorite for all the songs we tried, followed by the RS-1.
post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdone
I think if I heard this test before buying the PS-1, I'd probably pick the RS-1 just because of the huge price difference and the RS-1 is just as enjoyable in different ways. Since I already own the PS-1, I'm not parting with it. It was my pick as my favorite for all the songs we tried, followed by the RS-1.
Agreed, if I had your setup, and listened to mostly rock, I would pick the PS-1 also. It may not have made sense valuewise, but there was definately a difference in refinement, and since when does the law of diminishing return stop audiophiles? I don't know if getting a high priced DAC would be worth it. Yours had a nice analog sound to it, and your amp was definately one of the better solid state amps I've heard for headphones. I really think you have a nice system, so don't feel that I wasn't impressed
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