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No way is Apple Lossless as good as WAV. - Page 7  

post #91 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg
Hi D,
From what you are saying I had soundcheck essentially turned off because all my files start off as WAV (ripped to my Slimserver library using EAC). I then transfer into Itunes, add artist/title info manually for each CD, and convert to a different format there . That means the tag info you speak of isn't encoded and soundcheck can't work.
Gerry
Nope, when you use iTunes to convert WAV to ALAC it adds the tags
for you. If you have Soundcheck enabled in iTunes then it determins the song volume for you. When you put it on iPod the soundcheck volume goes along
for the ride. If you have soundcheck enabled on your ipod, but not in itunes,
then it calculates the volume information for you before it makes the
transfer. To do a fair comparison between alac and wav on an ipod you
need to turn soundcheck (and any other processing) off on your ipod.
post #92 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd
Nope, when you use iTunes to convert WAV to ALAC it adds the tags
for you. .
I don't think so. Have you actually tried this?... and if so could you answer the following:

1) If Itunes can add the tags when converting from WAV to ALAC then why do I have to enter the artiste/title info myself? (when I try and "get info" automatically the program tells me "Itunes cannot get track names for CD's not imported using Itunes".
2) Why is there virtually unanomous concensus that, when ripping to WAV, all tag info is lost and there is no easy way to recover it except using advanced retaggers like "powerdb" or the "godfather"?

Trust me. I've done a lot of research on the subject. In my travels I've run into a number of people who claimed "Oh that's easy just do this..." and it turns out to never be correct.
post #93 of 102
The key point is, you're not downloading a WAV file to the iPod. You're having iTunes create an ALAC file and then downloading the ALAC to the iPod. The soundcheck most certainly works with ALAC files.

There's no problem for iTunes in figuring out the normalization information when it is creating that ALAC file. Just because it can't or won't go out and look up track information on the Internet somewhere has nothing to do with the fact that it calculates volume data for the soundcheck.

If you want to hear the music without soundcheck, you have to turn soundcheck off. In that sense, everything is working exactly as it is supposed to work (which is something Apple is generally pretty good at).
post #94 of 102
Thread Starter 
I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the "volume" information was contained in the origonal tag that is created when ripping to FLAC, AIFF, ALAC etc etc. If you mean the Itunes evaluates the volume of each song and then adds this info into the ALAC tag then that makes sense. Since WAV has no place to put this info the Ipod can't implement the soundcheck and would explain why the WAV file sounded different.
post #95 of 102
Thread Starter 

I believe we have the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanx Brent,
I think you've provided the final piece of info that both explains why I heard a difference in the 2 formats (WAV/ALAC) and reconciles the fact that in theory there should be no difference. Instead of operating on both, "sound check" was only being implemented on the ALAC file (using tagged sound level info which WAV doesn't support). There was indeed a difference, but it was only in the relative volumes of the 2 files.
post #96 of 102
Yessir, to the limits my understanding of iPod stuff that's the deal.
post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg
I don't think so. Have you actually tried this?... and if so could you answer the following:

1) If Itunes can add the tags when converting from WAV to ALAC then why do I have to enter the artiste/title info myself? (when I try and "get info" automatically the program tells me "Itunes cannot get track names for CD's not imported using Itunes".
2) Why is there virtually unanomous concensus that, when ripping to WAV, all tag info is lost and there is no easy way to recover it except using advanced retaggers like "powerdb" or the "godfather"?

Trust me. I've done a lot of research on the subject. In my travels I've run into a number of people who claimed "Oh that's easy just do this..." and it turns out to never be correct.
Yes I've tried it. I think Brent has answered your other questions.
Thank you Brent. Aparently I was not able to explain well enough.
post #98 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hutto
Yessir, to the limits my understanding of iPod stuff that's the deal.
Just one thing that confuses me a bit. When I manually add the artist and title of the cd in Itunes (so that I can organize the library) the info must not get stored in a tag. When I transfere WAV files from Itunes to my Ipod the manually added info transfers fine so it must not be placed in a tag.
post #99 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd
Yes I've tried it. I think Brent has answered your other questions.
Thank you Brent. Aparently I was not able to explain well enough.
I'm not sure what you mean that "you've tried it". Itunes can't automatically retag WAV files with artist and cd title information when converting to ALAC or AIFF. Not if the files were origonally ripped to WAV anyway. That's what the question is asking. If you think it can you clearly havn't tried it or you don't understand the question.
post #100 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg
I'm not sure what you mean that "you've tried it".
That means I have imported a WAV file into iTunes. I have then converted that file into alac. iTunes makes the tags in the ALAC file, but it cannot fill in all the information. It does put the WAV filename in the "Name" tag. And if soundcheck is turned on, it calculates the volume normalization and puts it in the tag. The artist, album, etc tags are all there, but, they are empty until you put values in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg
Itunes can't automatically retag WAV files with artist and cd title information when converting to ALAC or AIFF. Not if the files were origonally ripped to WAV anyway. That's what the question is asking. If you think it can you clearly havn't tried it or you don't understand the question.
It is clear I did not understand your question. Either that, or, you are calling me a liar. That is OK, you probably wouldn't understand my answer. Obviously we are not very good at communicating with each other. I'll let somebody else try to help you.

Have you turned off soundcheck on your ipod yet and listened to see if alac and wav still sound different?
post #101 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd
Either that, or, you are calling me a liar. That is OK, you probably wouldn't understand my answer. Obviously we are not very good at communicating with each other. I'll let somebody else try to help you.

Have you turned off soundcheck on your ipod yet and listened to see if alac and wav still sound different?
If I was going to call you a liar I would call you a liar. I clearly said you didn't understand my question. As far as turning sound check off, I don't need to. The paradox is resolved. Since soundcheck places the relavent info in the tag and WAV doesn't support tags then I clearly was not comparing "apples to apples" when I tried to AB the ALAC and WAV files. Beyond that I'm content with fact technically verifiable fact that "lossless" means "lossless".
post #102 of 102
It looks to me like the question or issue raised in the original post has been answered so I am going to lock the thread. It looks like it is taken another bad turn.
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