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USB 1.0 not good enough for 2006 Bithead?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I just bought a used 2006 bithead, and it sounds great! At least it does when I'm using the line out from my CD player. I expected that getting the sound directly from the USB and going through its DAC would improve the sound even more. Unfortunately, while the sound is awesome just using the line out+bithead amp from my cheapie sony cd player, it sounds very hollow and lifeless coming out from the USB port.

So my question is, my home computer is older and only has USB 1.0. Will this affect the performance of the bithead? Is the low sound quality I'm experiencing a result of a defective unit or something, or will I get better sound when I go into work on Monday and plug it into the USB 2.0 port there?
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammich
I just bought a used 2006 bithead, and it sounds great! At least it does when I'm using the line out from my CD player. I expected that getting the sound directly from the USB and going through its DAC would improve the sound even more. Unfortunately, while the sound is awesome just using the line out+bithead amp from my cheapie sony cd player, it sounds very hollow and lifeless coming out from the USB port.

So my question is, my home computer is older and only has USB 1.0. Will this affect the performance of the bithead? Is the low sound quality I'm experiencing a result of a defective unit or something, or will I get better sound when I go into work on Monday and plug it into the USB 2.0 port there?


Sammich,

Try it on Monday and see, but I'm willing to hazzard a guess that you are correct and the Total bithead doesn't like USB1 ports. As I understand it, they (the USB1 ports) don't pass the same amount of data as a USB2 port does, so that may account for your "lack of life" experience.

However, if you still are experiencing sonic problems, I'd call Headroom and ask them. They're really good to deal with and will probably have an answer for you right off.
post #3 of 25
Darn double posts. Sorry.
post #4 of 25
the low sound quality is probably from your crappy soundcard.. so no.

how old can your computer be? USB 2.0 became widespread in 2000 or so, can it really be more than 6 years old?
post #5 of 25
If I remember right, USB v1.1 supports around 12 mbps max while 2.0 is around 480 mpbs max. So the 1.1 is probably not able to transfer the data fast enough for the better sound. Try it with the 2.0 machine Monday and plug it in directly into the computer, not through an external USB hub since not all of them are 2.0.

Hope this helps,
Michael
post #6 of 25
It should be fine. The bitrate of uncompressed 44.1Khz/16-bit audio is 1411Kbps and well within the 12Mbps capability of USB 1.0.

Some of the USB DACs out there are only USB 1.1 in their USB interface. Anyhow try it out on Monday at work.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by afobisme
the low sound quality is probably from your crappy soundcard.. so no.

how old can your computer be? USB 2.0 became widespread in 2000 or so, can it really be more than 6 years old?
The low sound quality comes when I bypass the sound card by plugging the Bithead directly into the USB port. This way the Bithead DAC becomes the sound card instead. Bought the computer toward the end of 1999.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxr71
It should be fine. The bitrate of uncompressed 44.1Khz/16-bit audio is 1411Kbps and well within the 12Mbps capability of USB 1.0.

Some of the USB DACs out there are only USB 1.1 in their USB interface. Anyhow try it out on Monday at work.

Actually, I thought that 12Mbps is for USB1.1, while USB1.0 only has 1.5Mbps.

If that's the case, then the bitrate is barely enough, so there might be problems like dropped data.
post #9 of 25
Also note that in Stereophile, April issue where they tested the Headroom Desktop and the Grace m902, USB had the highest jitter rate of all the interfaces:

http://stereophile.com/headphones/406head/index4.html (Headroom Desktop)
Quote:
Wes Phillips reported getting good sound using the USB input from his computer. This gave the same maximum output level as the conventional digital inputs, but did raise the jitter level to 682.5ps, mainly due to the introduction of some high-level sidebands at the data-related frequencies of ±230Hz and its harmonics (grayed-out trace in fig.15, red-circled spectral lines). The central peak in this graph was also slightly wider than with the S/PDIF connection, implying the presence of some very-low-frequency random jitter. Even so, this was very much better jitter rejection than from any other product I have tested using a USB data interface.
http://stereophile.com/headphones/406grace/index3.html (Grace m902)
Quote:
Wes Phillips reported that the m902 sounded "murky" when he connected it to his Macintosh G5 via USB. I therefore used the Miller analyzer to measure the jitter driving the Grace with USB data from my lab's PC. The result was the highest jitter level I have encountered, at 28.6 nanoseconds—almost 100 times greater than via the well-behaved S/PDIF connection. However, when fed a continuous, constant-level sinewave via USB, the m902's output level kept changing slightly. It appeared that this was due to a high level of hum; no matter how I arranged the m902's grounding or lack thereof, I couldn't eliminate what must have been a ground loop between the computer and the Grace.

The only way I could get hum-free audio from the Grace via its USB input was from my battery-powered PowerBook laptop. Fig.10 shows the jitter spectrum taken under these circumstances. The jitter level was lower than before, though still high, at 1.3 nanoseconds, and the spectrum is dominated by strong sidebands at ±23Hz (purple "1"), ±34.7Hz (purple "2"), ±230Hz (red "4"), and ±690Hz (red "9"). Note that there is also some spectral spreading of the central tone, due to the presence of low-frequency random-noise jitter. The correlation between jitter levels and spectra is unclear. However, I am not surprised that WP found the Grace's USB input to sound "murky." I must point out, however, that I have generally found much worse measured performance from USB-connected D/A converters.
The same units tested from 420 picoseconds to 236 picoseconds for SPDIF direct.

USB, apparently, has significantly more jitter due to having no timing data and it is up to the DAC to reject it.

Stereophile's review of the BitHead does note a good amount of jitter in the USB datalink and this might be the lack of clarity that you are hearing. It is possible that you have a ground or excessive jitter issue when your BitHead is connected to your home computer's USB.
post #10 of 25
I really do not understand why the BitHead would not work with USB 1.1.

The HagUSB device is a USB 1.1 device and probably uses a similiar internal chip.

It is not an issue of band width since the HagUSB works at the USB 1.1 level.
post #11 of 25
I have an older laptop that has only USB 1.1 and have never had any problems of this kind with my TBH.
post #12 of 25
*Double Post*
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Got the Bithead plugged in at work and listening to it now. Sounds great. So even if it's not the USB 1.1 problem, there's obviously something wrong with my home computer that makes it sound worse.

Thanks for all the feedback/info, folks.
post #14 of 25
I am glad that the amp is working good now. I'm just sorry that the computer at home is having problems. How many items do you have plugged into USB? There is only so much bandwith available on USB and if you have a lot of items up and running it might be eating up the bandwith on the bus. Just a thought, not worth the $0.02 I guess....

Michael
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I won't be listening to it on the home computer that much so it shouldn't be that big of a problem. I've only got 2 usb ports on the home computer, and the other one is being used.

And yes, it is a pain to have only 2 ports. I'm always unplugging/plugging things depending on what devices I'm using.
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