neutral bit perfect coaxial cable(what i think).

hi,

"neutral bit perfect coaxial cable".

i know there is no cable that is 100% neutral and 100% bit perfect.

that being said, i think the closest thing is a high quality rg6 cable terminated to f-screw type conectors with rhodium over copper rca adapters screwed on.

this is a true 75 ohm cable which is what i find is most important for the spdif spec. cables that are terminated in rca's are not 75ohm from a scientific standpoint.

as with all expensive cables, the fancy silver welded etc. cables add jitter and have a distinct flavor.

i think the only cable that has no sound of it's own is going to be the one i just described above. this should cost $20 for one meter(assuming you own the tools or someone makes it for you).

this is just like my power cable post. you can buy expensive flavored cables. or you can spend next to nothing and get neutral cables. it seems to get neutral cables you must simply come as close as possible to the design spec for what the cable is transmitting. the design spec is for a true 75 ohm low loss(quad shield) high bandwidth coaxial cable(copper braid,solid copper center,foam dielectric). that's it. start with exotic metals and rca's etc. you just strayed from the spec and created a cable with a distinct sound of it's own. many people want and will pay for that. i wan't to hear my cd's as recorded and am trying to make my system as sterile and clinical as possible.

the bluejeans have it right but they should be using a screw on rca not a soldered to the cable one. you might think it is another mechanical connection that is unnescessary but it is the only way to keep the assembly at 75 ohm impedance which is the most important thing for this application.

who agrees with me about coaxial cable construction?

music_man

>please point to the link. was this about rca conectors or coaxial cables? i am intrested in information on coaxial cables at the moment.

edit: i figured you already knew i AM an audio engineer. however i do not profess to know everything. this type of stuff is not exactly a science. that is the true reason cable manufacturers state they can not quantify the sound differences between cables. also why the cables are expensive. it takes years to "tune" those. getting into molecular migration of metalic grain crystals etc. is probably beyond the scope of this forum anyhow. i just really care how they sound(or don't) on a personal level.

i am sure the previous post is the same thing as always, no one agrees! lol.

i have found that what i said above is the best you can do, and go figure it is $20. the $500 cables change the sound a lot from what i can hear.

here is a secret too. make friends with a cable or sat installer. go get a good belden cable(they don't carry this). then ask them to please terminate it with the "blue" or "black" bottom compression conectors. so long as that, plus the rca screw on is not enough weight to break off your rca jack it will be the best you can do if you want neutrality imho.

as i stated above, soldered or "welded" rca conectors cannot be 75 ohms. screwing them on a 75 ohm f-conector is a better answer. not perfect, but better. rca and coaxial do not go together and that is for scientific reasons.
spdif was not originally intended for high end audio aplications so it did not matter. aes/ebu and lightpipe were for those applications.

music_man

i think i found the thread. but i wanted to know what people thought of my solution. you are also right, the problem is the clock signal not the data stream.

standard video quad shield rg6 terminated with 75 ohm compression f-conectors and pro video grade rca's screwed on. i have measured the clock signal off of these and it transmits a closer facsimile of the originating clock signal better than any other solution other than being terminated in bnc. the fancy rca cables with fancy dielectric,odd shields, different types of solder or "welds" and silver are so far from 75 ohm. some of those are even at different impedance at different parts of the cable contributing to their "overall" impedance. you have a 75 ohm(or not) coaxial cable terminated in rca's which surely are not 75 ohm. with the screw on solution and pro grade video rca's you are much closer to 75 ohm than any of the $500 cables. these are used daily in location video applications. if you want to hear your sound as it is you must conform to the spec. if you want flavor, spend $500+. nothing wrong with that, just not what i want personally.

music_man

it seems to me that good old rg6/u with either compression fitted(perma seal) rca's or compression fitted f-connectors with screwed on rca adapters(i find this maintains closer to 75 ohms) will beat all the expensive cables. when i went to a $20 coxial cable i was amazed at the improvement over a $200 audioquest cable! this is not because the coax is better or fancy. it is not. it is simply what the specification was designed for. so it works where the others are (bad) snake oil imho. also, i would not go using silver wire for spdif, and i would not use gold flash on the connector. i use a rg6/u with tinned copper and a brass>silver>rhodium lok connector. once it is compressed (without solder it is a mechanical connection) a tow truck could not take it off. solder changes the impedance to begin with and moreso over time. "welded" is a fancy word for very hot fusing solder.

just stick with what meets the design specification and the sound should be exactly as intended. stray from this and it should sound pretty awefull. of course some people think awefull is beautifull.

music_man

i think that a mechanical conection like blue jeans is best for coaxial only.
their design is simple,cheap and probably one of the most neutral coax cables around at any price. this is because it stays pretty close to 75 ohms being that it is a real coaxial(aka catv) cable.

for good analog ic's i'd look at other designs.

music_man

well, stuff that is a 50 ohm cable and soldered or fused at the conectors. a radial coaxial 75 ohm cable is for video or s/pdif. intrestingly sony based the s/pdif design spec on a video cable because if it is actually 75 ohms it will have very little little loss. the problem is when they stick rca's on s/pdif cables. they should be bnc's. if one is serious about digital they should be using aes anyhow.

specific brands? for analog, not too expensive straightwire maybe. for more money, maybe nordhost or stealth. i do not like audioquest or the scarry brand. there are some other off brands not worth mentioning. however, ar at bb is worth mentioning imho. that is $20 very well spent if all you have is $20 for ic's.

anyways, this post was about digital ic's not analog!
in that regard, the blue jeans is pretty much exactly what i was speaking of when i made this post. i personally would teminate to a screw-f conector and then screw on a rca, that should be even better than the blue jeans. that is what i was talking about at the top of this thread.

muisc_man