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Blind Cable Taste Test RESULTS! - Page 12

post #166 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDobs
#2) The test didn't have a sample size large enough to give good results.
Edwood's test is more than enough to indicate that cheap cables are just as good as expensive ones. There's no reason to test any further, because the people who refuse to acknowledge that obvious fact aren't going to accept it no matter what test you use.

For myself, I did this sort of testing myself years ago and came to the same conclusion. For myself, the sample size of one (me) was sufficient to know what kind of cables to buy. My system is wired with Radio Shack cables and I have never had a problem or reason to replace them. I expend my energy and money on things that make a difference.

See ya
Steve
post #167 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox
I've already answered this earlier, but I'll give it another go. Your stance on this assumes that everyone who took the test was familiar with the cables. Even if they had preconceptions as to what the cables would sound like, there would be no continuity between these perceptions... everyone could have a different 'idea' of what they should sound like. So all that was being tested was how people's preconceptions weighed against reality. Now, if they all had identical preconceptions, this would be an interesting study in psychology, but still tells us basically nothing about the cables.

Let me expand on my analogy.

The test group is given the following information:

Fred is smart. Pat is sweet. John is mean.

They are then asked to pick them out with three people lined up.

1. A big guy wearing gothic punk clothing with a grimace on his face.
2. A petite girl in a catholic school girl uniform.
3. A man wearing glasses in a business suit.

Personally I think the most obvious choice here would be Fred#3, Pat#2, John#1.

Turns out, Fred is short for Frederica, Pat is the misunderstood street kid with a heart of gold and John works a deskjob during the day and reads the entrails of stray cats in the evening.

Now if you knew all of these people personally, the questions would be much easier to answer accurately.
Still a bad analogy!!

It's a good response and I accept your point of view on this but I still insist the test revealed much more. After all the test wasn't to just "guess" based on the personal appearence of the cables (people). It was actually to put them to the VERY USE THEY ARE DESIGNED TO DO! So back to your analogy, it would be not by looking at them and guessing, it would be making these people do things that would reveal their character. Oh, and by the way, cables don't lie or cheat or pretend. They simply are what they are... they are cables..

Does anybody else see it differently?
post #168 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunByrne
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

gasp... breathe... common ground... hahaha... all posters... hahahaha...

on a cable thread?

OK, more seriously, I think it's safe to say that there's unlikely to be a test which will satisfy everyone. I think there are people on both sides of the issue who will always find something to object to if the test doesn't go "their way." I mean, can you really imagine any test that would get, say, sovkiller and markl to agree about cables? (Just for example's sake, nothing personal to either one of you.)

Now, if we accept that (and assume some people will be unswayed no matter what) but still believe there are enough people who only lean one way or another but aren't quite religious about it, then yes, there's probably common ground in the middle somewhere.

One problem is that we'd all have to agree what the right question is in the first place, and I think even there we might have some dissent.

Furthermore, I think an important part of the process would be for people to state clearly what they think the results would mean given certain outcomes before they know which way the data comes out. Hindsight bias is potentially enormous here.

But in principle, I think it's a fun idea to discuss what could be done to be more definitive. And I'd like to reiterate that no matter what, we owe Ed a huge debt for getting the ball rolling...
I agree, we owe Ed a huge thank you for taking his time and energy to put this together!

I think quite honestly it's pretty sad that we can't be objective about the subject and open enough to allow our minds to be turned if necessary. Why a guy who thinks Radio Shack cables are as good as $1000 IC's can't be shown data to change his mind and vice versa is pretty pathetic really. There is a truth beyond certain things we choose to believe based on our pride and ego. Marching forward to help better define the reality beyond our perceptions could prove quite valuable to ALL of us here.

With that said, we should field some more ideas on how this could be done. Like any other study, I think the first part is to determine what questions need to be answered and work backwards to design a test that can adequeately answer those questions. I'm sure you are right that not EVERYBODY is going to agree 100% with whatever test is determined to be done, but don't we think we could all throw the ideas and thoughts into the hat, pull out the good ones, tweak them a little to accomodate the widest audience and then have everybody support the combined effort? I wouldn't think this should be too unreasonable.

Jon
post #169 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDobs
After all the test wasn't to just "guess" based on the personal appearence of the cables (people).
No, it was just a guess based on personal preconceptions of how the cables would sound. This is better somehow?
post #170 of 578
Wow! Thanks Ed! I find this a most interesting thread and this is a sticky one - with some very informed arguments involved.

My x-cents: I believe in cables, but I also think, the differences are rather subtle. But there are differences. But these could be soaked up (statistically) by the different systems (read: varying boundary conditions). So: a cheap stock cable can sound ok on some setups! But you could find (by incident or by careful and systematic research) a cable that delivers sonic benefits. The conclusion that cables are totally insignificant can not be drawn, though. A test on one system so this boundary condition is controlled may be helpful. Maybe at a meet ?

Thanks again Ed for your engagement and effort for the community.

Kudos,
Klaus
post #171 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox
Turns out, Fred is short for Frederica
If you have trouble determining gender in a blind test, you better make love with the lights on.

See ya
Steve
post #172 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
If you have trouble determining gender in a blind test, you better make love with the lights on.

See ya
Steve
LMAO.
post #173 of 578
Quote:
In other words and using your same analogy, they know that Peter should be a black guy and 300 pounds, John 150 and white, and Chris an asiatic of 96 pounds, and they missed in guessing all the time, with the three guys in front of them...
Exactly!

But you're still wrong. This does not prove that your hypothesis is correct; it simply states that the experiment cannot draw any valid conclusions which you can use to back up your point of view.
post #174 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDobs
NO... This analogy is HORRIBLE because people were given the three names and they are NOT arbitrary! They represented three distinct levels of quality.
Well, they represent three distinct levels of price. If you are going to conduct this type of experiment, you can't assume that there is any perceptible difference in quality.
post #175 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febs
Well, they represent three distinct levels of price. If you are going to conduct this type of experiment, you can't assume that there is any perceptible difference in quality.
Okay, well I suppose we better get this off the table right now. Are others here seriously going to suggest that just because a cable costs $100.00+ does not mean it was meant to sound better than the one that is $3.00? Excuse me for making the assumption that when somebody says "Here's a cable to connect your stereo that costs $500.00 and here's one that costs $3.00" I'm going to assume the $500 cable is supposedly of higher build and construction. Am I wrong here?
post #176 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDobs
Okay, well I suppose we better get this off the table right now. Are others here seriously going to suggest that just because a cable costs $100.00+ does not mean it was meant to sound better than the one that is $3.00? Excuse me for making the assumption that when somebody says "Here's a cable to connect your stereo that costs $500.00 and here's one that costs $3.00" I'm going to assume the $500 cable is supposedly of higher build and construction. Am I wrong here?
Raises hand


Just because one headphone costs 5000$ more than another headphone[Orpheus vs HD580/600] doesn't mean it will sound better
No one here would dispute the sonic differences between the Orpheus and the HD58/600, however there are quite a few head-fi senior members who prefer the HD580/600 to the Orpheus
post #177 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
If you have trouble determining gender in a blind test, you better make love with the lights on.
Funny joke, but my point is that with limited second hand information with which to make your decision it usually turns out to be faulty.
post #178 of 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeeMeS
Raises hand


Just because one headphone costs 5000$ more than another headphone[Orpheus vs HD580/600] doesn't mean it will sound better
No one here would dispute the sonic differences between the Orpheus and the HD58/600, however there are quite a few head-fi senior members who prefer the HD580/600 to the Orpheus
Okay...

#1) I wasn't talking headphones.. I was talking cables...

#2) I wasn't talking the difference between a $500 cable and a $100 cable. I was referring to the difference between a $100 cable and the cheapest one made to man from Rat Shack. We're talking a cable where even in China they would probably look at this sprig of a cable and say "damn, that thing is cheap".
post #179 of 578
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeeMeS
Raises hand


Just because one headphone costs 5000$ more than another headphone[Orpheus vs HD580/600] doesn't mean it will sound better
No one here would dispute the sonic differences between the Orpheus and the HD58/600, however there are quite a few head-fi senior members who prefer the HD580/600 to the Orpheus
Uh. I would much prefer the HE90 over the HD580/600 any day.

-Ed
post #180 of 578
Hey, Edwood. Very nice test. I'm sure it isn't scientifically rigorous in terms of design, but it was a real nice effort, and the results are very interesting. Well worth the effort and time, IMHO. You could run the results by the people over at hydrogenaudio.org and some of the more technically minded guys over there could probably analyze the data and summarize the significance of the results for you. They live and die for stuff like this.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who participated.
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