Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › DAC comparison: Storm D02 vs Zhaolu vs Harmon Kardon HD970
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

DAC comparison: Storm D02 vs Zhaolu vs Harmon Kardon HD970 - Page 3

post #31 of 226
moved
http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...10#post2280410
post #32 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by akwok
Then again, I am an Atheist..
Bad thing for audio: too closed-minded. Try being an Agnostic!

Grinnings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: Nice review, btw.
post #33 of 226
post #34 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L
LOL. I seem to be posting one post behind your speed. Well, all the links I posted have plenty of "explanation" if you read them. Whether they will be good enough for you is entirely up to you, and you're not going to find "data" to prove this physically just like you are not going to find "data" on cables that correlates cable A indisputably sounds "better" to person A vs. cable B.

In fact, this is reminding me a lot of "Cables Don't Make a difference" threads in the past. Do you believe cables sound different? Have you made measurements of THD, IMD with different cables also? What if you can't measure any difference yet cables sound different to the ear?
I just told you, I can't neither _hear_ nor _measure_ any difference. The pages you linked me to tell me a whole lot about how they claim to reduce vibration and not a whole lot about why I should even care about by explaining why it can be expected to impact reproduction.

I'm not going to bother discussing cables as I've already been notified repeatedly that this forum isn't friendly towards a serious inquiry of what merits there are to it. I'm not a 'disbeliever' or what have you, but I do find some of the descriptions exxagerated.

Nonetheless, answer me this, then. Why is it that energy applied in strength orders of magnitude greater than the sort these vibration control mechanisms are designed to handle is having no audible or measureable effect to me, but that these devices will assuredly produce both effects if I were to employ them? Clearly, the degree of vibration reduction achieved by my ceasing to smack my hand on the desk, shelf, table, etc. or pound my fist against it (or tap on the dac's case) is greater than the reduction I'd achieve by leaving everything still but adding the vibration reduction devices as well. So why is the reduction that is orders of magnitude lesser in degree supposedly giving orders of magnitude greater effect?
post #35 of 226
Boy this thread sure turned to crap just because a few members have a hard-on for a piece of metal and plastic.

If you guys want to complain about surfaces that the Zhalou sounds good on, do it in another thread.
post #36 of 226
Very nice.
post #37 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaddy
Boy this thread sure turned to crap just because a few members have a hard-on for a piece of metal and plastic.

If you guys want to complain about surfaces that the Zhalou sounds good on, do it in another thread.
I believe a manufacturer who actually endorses modifications to be a bit fishy, IMO. But that's just me. Something about a manufacturer not doing the said modifications in the first place and allowing for these little tweaks to make a significant difference irks me.

The Zhaolu was supposed to be the best in it's price point, stock. No if's, but's, whatever. I'm cool with that. But then there are people here who are saying the comparision is unfair because it's not maxed out. And that you need proper power conditioning. And isolation. And 'proper' music. So I need this isolation block for $500, this power regenerator for $800, and I must only listen to complex, layered music. Nice.

Might I remind you that the -stock- Zhaolu 2.0 was said to sound better than the Meridian G08? The Esoteric D70 killer? The DAC-1 killer? What happened? All of a sudden, the Ori mod somehow changes the stock DAC's status to crap? This is a recent upgrade, no? How can you blame the methodology of the OP if there were such strong views before regarding stock?!

A nice overhyped review of the Zhaolu and everyone comes a'praising. A quick minimeet against another DAC, which doesn't favour the Zhaolu, and a bunch of excuses come up.

So many contradictions and inconsistencies, hmm.
post #38 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaddy
Boy this thread sure turned to crap just because a few members have a hard-on for a piece of metal and plastic.

If you guys want to complain about surfaces that the Zhalou sounds good on, do it in another thread.
I agree. I have pasted over the vibration/resonance posts over to a proper thread and deleted my posts. I would encourage others to paste over what was not already moved and delete their comments in this thread. Thanks.
http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...10#post2280410
post #39 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L
I agree. I have pasted over the vibration/resonance posts over to a proper thread and deleted my posts. I would encourage others to paste over what was not already moved and delete their comments in this thread. Thanks.
http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...10#post2280410
Thanks Jon.

I will also delete my posts. Cheers!
post #40 of 226
Thread Starter 

Can we pls talk more about the DACs

In order of who said what:

alex_cs: No. the DAC was not modded at all. I would have said if it was, because I realise that is a very important part of the comparo of any products. It is borrowed from a friend so I can't go futzing with it.

"av710+optical, and i think this is a funciton of the amount of buffer in ASIO4ALL"

I don't use ASIO4ALL, I (and my friend) both use "foo_asio_out.dll" My friend did not get the crackles, like I do between every song. So that makes me conclude the Zhaolu is more senstive to source than the HK or D02 (all were tested using my PC as source and my iRiver as source, and the Zhaolu and D02 were also tested using the HK's CDP as source. The Zhaolu + 0404 is the only combination which crackled.

Jon L:
1. Comparison for headphones was done using the configuration for a period but because of all the plugging and unplugging they all ended up on the floor or stacked. Not sure if you noticed, but that "shelf" the D02 sits on is sitting on top of a padded footstool! Hardly solid. Regardless, if any of these products are susceptible to differences in performance because of what the owner stacks with them, they are junk in my opinion. During the comparison at my friends place, the amps and DACs were all on the floor - a common material for all, regardless how good it is.

2. Why can't we expect anything but average results without good power on a "normal" DAC like Zhaolu? You are correct, the D02 would theoretically perform better in a situation where power is not the cleanest. We must have clean power here because I cannot not tell any difference between AC and DC D02 operation thus far.

3. "midbass-lean headphones like K701" I owned the HD650 for more than a year and was constantly underwhelmed by it's (IMO!) overpowering warmth/midbass. When I changed to the K701 (even unamped) I liked it much more. I've owned them now for about 6 months or so and 400 hours, and adding the D02 to the mix didn't change the overall sound signature. The atmosphere and separation were common to both the K701 in my listening, and also on the speaker setup.

4. I also listened to the following soundtracks, but the post was already very long so I omitted them: Soundtrack - Ghost in the Shell, Soundtrack - Lord of the Rings - The Fellow Ship of the Ring, Soundtrack - Batman Begins, Soundtrack - A Beautiful Mind, Soundtrack - The Brothers Grimm, Soundtrack - The Sixth Sense, Soundtrack - Immortal Beloved. My classical just happens to be in soundtracks, as I'm still trying to figure out what are the best proper standalone performances of classical pieces to get hold of. Immortal Beloved is full of Beethoven music. What is "acoustic" with "s ?? My CD of 11 string classical guitar sounds very good through the D02. Same benefits as previously stated.

The speakers linked to do indeed appear to be the speakers used. All the DACs passed through those same speakers.

alex_cs: WRT DAC functionality, and with it's stock sound signature clear to me, unless the mods you're talking about change the signature drastically, I can't see myself being very impressed by it.

Sean H: of course anything will sound better with good power conditioning. But then EVERYTHING will sound better. IMO, because I cannot tell the difference with the D02 in battery/AC mode, I think I'm possibly hearing it at it's best already WRT power. I would prefer a unit which is independent of power cleanliness (and source component while we're talking about external factors).

Jon L: thanks for moving the vibration talk.
post #41 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaddy
Boy this thread sure turned to crap just because a few members have a hard-on for a piece of metal and plastic.

If you guys want to complain about surfaces that the Zhalou sounds good on, do it in another thread.
Come on dude. Jon was just pointing something out and he kindly moved his comments. I just made a comment in regard to his point is all, it's a valid point Jon made and a lot of people here at Head-Fi don't think about vibration stuff like they do at a place like Audio Asylum where there's even crazier people. Man I wish I would have never made a comment to begin with. I'm not running to any defense of the Zhaolu. In fact it's made me more interested to hear the Storm some day.

rincewind - Thanks again for the review. It was fair and balanced. You are right about the conditioning I just thought the battery power had a clear edge there but if you can't hear any difference between AC and battery then it's moot, good point. The scope of your review was with a 2.0 stock unit and people should maintain the integrity of your review based on that. It's just inevitable though that people enthusaistic about certain mods to the Zhaolu, like the DC cap mod, are going to offer those things in a thread like this but hopefully that wouldn't be in a defensive way - again they should keep in mind your review was with a stock 2.0 unit and to respect the the integrity of your review based on that. Like Akwok said, it's gettng pretty crazy with the Zhaolu's - there's stock form, there's opamps tweaks, there's the DC cap mod tweak, there's the Ori mod. We all know anything can sound better with mods but again THIS REVIEW is about a stock 2.0 and we need to respect that.

Whew, things are getting a bit crazy. We really should get back on topic I thought it was a nice review.
post #42 of 226
I can see alot of work was put into listening and writing the review rincewind.

You said the 2.0 was stock meaning the dc caps were still in place right?
post #43 of 226
rincewind: Thank you for a nice review. I think you were too polite to the stock Zhaolu D2, which I found a bit more lacking... If your owner friend is more "adventurous" then try bypassing the caps. That easy mod is a serious "ear opener"!
You should not apologize for reviewing the D02 with battery power. That is a built-in feature and a compelling reason to buy that design.
post #44 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerWilco
I can see alot of work was put into listening and writing the review rincewind.

You said the 2.0 was stock meaning the dc caps were still in place right?
According to his last reply....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rincewind
alex_cs: No. the DAC was not modded at all. I would have said if it was, because I realise that is a very important part of the comparo of any products. It is borrowed from a friend so I can't go futzing with it.
post #45 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by device manager
According to his last reply....
Ya

Was just making sure,because after i first recieved my 2.0 i posted i could not recommend it.I thought in stock form it was only 2 dimensional sounding and did not sound as good as the 1.3..

I think it held up very well in the review for stock form.Those dc caps kill the sound.


Now after the dc caps are removed it's another story.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › DAC comparison: Storm D02 vs Zhaolu vs Harmon Kardon HD970