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HD DVD versus Blu Ray - Page 4

post #46 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopShelf View Post
Just like 700mb is very different then 10MB when there was only 56k in the mid 90's.

Lets all agree (for the sake of arguement), that DVD's became the "norm" or mainstream, six years ago. At that time, could you download a DVD from your computer, like you can today? No

So you can take that example, and show Blue-Ray or HD-DVD, being atleast 4 to 5 years away from being the "norm" or mainstream, and then adding a year or so on top of that, to when you can see typical people, downloading hi-def movies

Its only a matter or time, when 20GB is labled as "tiny".
Why would we agree that DVDs became the norm 6 years go? DVDs were widely used and being rented out much before that. Does it have to be the case that everyone uses it before it is widely accepted? There will always be people who hold on to old formats, but I stopped using VHS as far back as 1995, if not sooner.

Second, do you really think the infrastructure or technology is in place for 20gig streams to be the norm? Furthermore, its not like the average consumer is using his PC to download DVDs today, even if the bandwith is available.

Lastly, there is one big difference today. 1080p and the fact that the industry is rapidly trying to make large 1080p TVs the norm. Do you really think when large TVs next yer are 1080p that people aren't going to want the content fo their TVs? I actually use a 65"1080p plasma right now and I can assure you that people aren't going to be happy with DVD when they see what HD formats look like on those TVs.

I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but in Japan and the US, the push toward 1080p is already well under way. While the HD formats are slowly picking up pace, players can be bought for under $300 already.
post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenFountain View Post
I believe people are getting a little ahead of themselves with the HD format wars. Consumers have invested billions in DVD collections, and likewise studios have invested billions bringing practically every movie, TV series, ect. to the DVD format, often totally remastering them at great expense. 8 years ago consumers were ripe for a VHS replacement and DVD has proven to be a success beyond it's creators wildest dreams.

Having said that (the obvious), I really doubt we are going to see an explosion of HD media like we saw with DVD around 2000. I don't find it crazy to believe that neither will win or be a success. Sony put 400,000 BR players in homes in one day, perhaps HD DVD will be better, or cheaper, but I personally doubt either one will garner enough support to fill the aisles of Wal-Mart & Blockbuster and that's what matters in the big picture. I suppose it matters to the uber-enthusiast that has proper theater and is willing to shell out $30+ for a title they may already have on DVD and laser disk but that constitutes an extreme minority.

But maybe that's just my wallet talking as I look at stacks of DVD's up to my ears.

Nobody is saying it is going to happen overnight. Think of how long DVDs were out before the "explosion" arrived. HD movies and players aren't going to be priced high forever and people will be buying new TVs, at least at their normal rate. Furthermore, the movie industry and TV is definitely moving toward high-def. Upscaled DVD just doesn't cut it. Do you really think people are going to be happy watching their high-def TV programming only to realize that their DVDs look mediocre at best in comparison?
post #48 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenFountain View Post
I believe people are getting a little ahead of themselves with the HD format wars. Consumers have invested billions in DVD collections, and likewise studios have invested billions bringing practically every movie, TV series, ect. to the DVD format, often totally remastering them at great expense. 8 years ago consumers were ripe for a VHS replacement and DVD has proven to be a success beyond it's creators wildest dreams.

Having said that (the obvious), I really doubt we are going to see an explosion of HD media like we saw with DVD around 2000. I don't find it crazy to believe that neither will win or be a success. Sony put 400,000 BR players in homes in one day, perhaps HD DVD will be better, or cheaper, but I personally doubt either one will garner enough support to fill the aisles of Wal-Mart & Blockbuster and that's what matters in the big picture. I suppose it matters to the uber-enthusiast that has proper theater and is willing to shell out $30+ for a title they may already have on DVD and laser disk but that constitutes an extreme minority.

But maybe that's just my wallet talking as I look at stacks of DVD's up to my ears.
One or the other format (probably both) is going to replace DVD, for one simple reason: storage capacity.
We've had cheap DVDs for a while, and in the meantime hard disk capacities have grown a LOT. DVDs just aren't large enough anymore; when you have a 320GB drive full of movies, music or whatever, backing it up on 4.3GB DVDs is going to take a loooong time.
The world needs better optical storage, and it's coming in the form of BluRay (I'd say HD-DVD too, if it didn't have rather less capacity).
So while the home theatre crowd may not see the new formats as anything to write home about, the computer users do.
And when the world's computers start transitioning to them, the other devices will probably follow their lead.
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleestack View Post
Think of how long DVDs were out before the "explosion" arrived.
It didn't take a whole lot of time before DVD's outnumbered and finally replaced VHS as a whole on retail floors.

hmm, but I didn't mean to imply that both will be a failure or not even be popular, just that it's possible both formats will float around for many years before one takes the betamax title. DVD had no real external competition, the only battle was between traditional pay to own media and Circuit City's Divx pay to play scheme that died quickly. my concern is going in to a store and having to choose between DVD, HD DVD, and Blue Ray, all of which may come with different features at different price points. on the most simple level or logic it seems to be a making for a situation where the vast majority of people will not want to mass consume like they have with DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallingwater View Post
One or the other format (probably both) is going to replace DVD, for one simple reason: storage capacity.
I'd agree with that point to an extent. As soon as one format has a burner available under $100 with a recordable media standard i'll adopt, because even with redundant hard drives i'd still like to have another backup...and burning 50+ DVD's just isn't an option.
post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenFountain View Post
It didn't take a whole lot of time before DVD's outnumbered and finally replaced VHS as a whole on retail floors.

hmm, but I didn't mean to imply that both will be a failure or not even be popular, just that it's possible both formats will float around for many years before one takes the betamax title. DVD had no real external competition, the only battle was between traditional pay to own media and Circuit City's Divx pay to play scheme that died quickly. my concern is going in to a store and having to choose between DVD, HD DVD, and Blue Ray, all of which may come with different features at different price points. on the most simple level or logic it seems to be a making for a situation where the vast majority of people will not want to mass consume like they have with DVD.
Yes, but if you consder 2000 the "explosion," think of how long DVDs were out before that happened.

I also think one of the new formats will be relegated to Beta status unless they agree on allowing licenses for a cheap universal player. I just think the adoption of one of the formats is inevitable.
post #51 of 99
Ok...

1. I predict DVD will remain the dominant format.

2. Blue-Ray will successfully co-exist as the videophile, and gamer (PS3) movie format.

3.HD-DVD will die.

It will be just like DD (DVD) and DTS (BlueRay) coexisting.
post #52 of 99
As long as the coaxial cable lives dvd will be the king, once the law comes in effect by 2009 they're going to pull the plug on coaxial and all television signals will be digital then you will see a different trend.
DVD 480i 480P
HD-DVD 720i 720P cap 1080i
Blue Ray all resolutions, mainly 1080P

High def used to be 720P a few years ago and 1080i was the ultra exclusive resolution, now 1080P is the real high end.

In my oppinion HD-DVD get's there but it's more of dvd 1.5 not the next generation, if it had the ability to store stupid ammounts of information it would make sense, but blue ray blows it away. With PS3 slowly sliding their foot in the door and putting out blue ray player in their units it makes it easier to adapt it, like a double edge sword, junior wants a new video game console, dad wants a high def player and you kill two birds with one stone. Until 2009 and flat screens become more affortable there is technically no race, they're two powerfull engines revving up in neutral. Are screens getting more affortable? yes, a lot, but unless you have digital cable or have something to take advantage of higher def you can live without one. I played some dvd's on my pc, they look perfect on the tv, they look awesome in my pc monitor, what I notice is at full screen they don't look as nice as when I make the screen smalle. This is because I am running my monitor at 1600x1024 so this resolution is beyond 480p, I can even run beyond 1080P my monitor caps at around 2048x1280 with my current video card my monitor actually goes quite a bit higher. Unless I can feed a resolution close to the resolution that I have my monitor running I will notice some loss of quality.
post #53 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleestack View Post
Why would we agree that DVDs became the norm 6 years go? DVDs were widely used and being rented out much before that. Does it have to be the case that everyone uses it before it is widely accepted? There will always be people who hold on to old formats, but I stopped using VHS as far back as 1995, if not sooner.

Second, do you really think the infrastructure or technology is in place for 20gig streams to be the norm? Furthermore, its not like the average consumer is using his PC to download DVDs today, even if the bandwith is available.

Lastly, there is one big difference today. 1080p and the fact that the industry is rapidly trying to make large 1080p TVs the norm. Do you really think when large TVs next yer are 1080p that people aren't going to want the content fo their TVs? I actually use a 65"1080p plasma right now and I can assure you that people aren't going to be happy with DVD when they see what HD formats look like on those TVs.

I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but in Japan and the US, the push toward 1080p is already well under way. While the HD formats are slowly picking up pace, players can be bought for under $300 already.

DVD became the dominant format in 2003, not 2000, 6 years after they first became available.

As regards the infrastructure for streaming hi-def movies, they will upgrade it, just like they did for broadband. At the end of the day the future economy will rely so heavily on the internet that the government will actively encourage upgrades to the network.

Free OTA HD is, and will remain, extremely limited in most countries due to the lack of available broadcasting bandwith, so the majority of viewing will never be HD until the base level moves to a different broadcasting method (I'm willing to bet large amounts of money it will be internet based).

I think a lot of people will remain happy with DVD content on large screens as most people aren't 'videophiles', lets be honest the large TV is nothing more than a status symbol to the average consumer (just like honkin' great hi-fi's were in the '70's). I think another key difference from the VHS>DVD upgrade, is that DVD doesn't degrade like tapes do, so a lot of people had the incentive to go DVD even if they had large video libraries, now people have a copy that (with care) will last for a very long time without degradation.

To clarify my earlier point, I think the HD disc formats will be successful in the video market, but I don't think either of them will acheive the ubiquity that DVD has, I believe downloaded/streamed content will.

All IMO of course.

Just to point out that the analogue switch-off just means that all channels will be broadcast digitally, not that they will all be hi def.
post #54 of 99
Every time I check Netflix, the HD-DVD and Blu Ray categories tease me. I want to hop on a train, but am fearful that the one I pick will die.

But my t.v. is screaming for high def! The scaling artifacts are getting old.


So what is the latest advice for someone looking to take the leap within the next couple of months?
post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by virometal View Post
Every time I check Netflix, the HD-DVD and Blu Ray categories taught me. I want to hop on a train, but am fearful that the one I pick will die.

But my t.v. is screaming for high def! The scaling artifacts are getting old.


So what is the latest advice for someone looking to take the leap within the next couple of months?
You have a 360, why not drop the $200 on the HD-DVD add on. If Blu-death-Ray wins then you're only out $200. At least you'd be enjoying it now.
post #56 of 99
there will always be UMD movies unless the PSP dies

------what a silly thing to say; UMD is a ridiculously limited format, and yes when the PSP dies (or people buy DS's ) it will go away


sounds a lot like saying "betamax will be around forever until the player dies"
post #57 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kin0kin View Post
Sony would merely lose the movie industry in this particular format. Their main market is the gaming industry anyway, so as long as game developers don't pull out, the format will stay
you're deranged.........the movie industry is pretty damn important to this format war.....
post #58 of 99
keep in mind that if you're buying a ps3 just for BR, that

1. the format might decline
2. players with much better image quality will probably be released and prices will drop dramatically
post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraProject
You have a 360, why not drop the $200 on the HD-DVD add on. If Blu-death-Ray wins then you're only out $200. At least you'd be enjoying it now.
You know. That is what I'm going to do. After spending a couple hours researching this stuff, there is still too much in the air.

Wish the XBOX player had HDMI, but for only two hundred bones...
post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenFountain View Post
I believe people are getting a little ahead of themselves with the HD format wars
absolutely right; BR and hddvd are IMHO never going to capture the general market like DVD has; i think they'll gain acceptance, but it will be very slow; slower than hdtv acceptance for sure, and THAT can clearly show everyone that these formats aren't going to be doing well; NO ONE without an HDTV IS GOING TO BUY hdtv-players, and many who have hdtv's still won't

that being said, i would like an hddvd or BR player, since i have xbox360 the hddvd add-on is intriguing; but even an AV ENTHUSIAST like myself is not stumbling over myself to get one; i'd need a ton more titles, and a heft drop in player cost first
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