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HD DVD versus Blu Ray

post #1 of 99
Thread Starter 
Anyone an early adopter of either format?

Since im always interested in technology, especially those dealing with audio and video, I was wondering if there were other members with similar interests on the forum?


Headphones are great, but so is home theater.

Lately in regards to technology between the two warring formats

HD DVD and Blu Ray both called HD and BD respectively, BD format has been universally scorned acrossed the internet since its launch 3 week of June.
Even now all the new titles are being slammed over and over again, however HD DVD seems to be garnering glowing reviews.

here is the low down,

HD-a1/xa1 by toshiba incorporates dual layer mpeg 4 format which holds 30 gigs. It has already been rumored that a working 45 gig has been in the works, which is a triple layer disc. The disc uses dolby digital plus lossless audio and encoded 1080p video. But currently the toshiba and RCA hd dvd units only output at 1080i.

Blu rays only machine out is called the BD-1000, which is made by samsung.
The unit has a few flaws, a reversed l/r sound check, NO native 1080p support, which is something that misled a few people. Samsung advertises 1080p output, and it has been used as a sales pitch against competiting format HD DVD. however, the sammy is actually a 1080i unit, it rips the video at 1080i and upon the last stages of video it internally scales to 1080p.

You would potentially get a better quality picture just outputting 1080i and having the display itself do the saling to 1080p. because of this design, video output is no more advanced than the hd-a1.

However, rumor is that Sony CAN'T get the dual layer 50 gig discs to work and a substantially high failure rate among replicating processes. So currently all BD movies out at the moment are 25 gig single layer discs. On top of that, lion gat releases suffer from lost fram stutter issues during video playback with DTS enabled and most of the source material is poor video quality. The encoding Sony chose to use with BD is in fact mpeg 2, which is the standard codec used for regular dvd. This has led to big issues in terms of video quality and compression artifacts.

Current sales of the bd-1000 has beehn absolutely dismal, while HD DVD players have been in short supply and can not meet demand.

To tell you the truth, Im very dissapointed with the hype sony generated only to find out it was all talk and not reality. Maybe one day 50 gigs will be out, but it doesnt seem like anytime soon, and by then it may be too late.

July 11th, there was a new HD DVD group formed that will be using $150,000,000 towards advertising the new format and increasing public awareness, while BD has been plastered in all the video magazines and forums as Sony has also been heavily advertising.

As I currently see it, BD format seems to show surefire signs of an obsolete format, however Sony hopes to use the launch of the PS3 as a big boost in increasing BD userbase, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out.

Anyone rooting for one format over the other?
post #2 of 99
I don't think the format war will really begin until some companies that can actually make a half-decent player (ie, Panasonic and Pioneer) release their units. Samsung's player is a joke.
post #3 of 99
i'm conciously holding off on the new formats for a couple years, by that time i should be able to buy a 1080P SED and really feel the upgrate in formats is justified. unless there is another singular HD Media on the horizon i will gladly buy into HD-DVD, i have personal problems with sony and try to stay away from their products.

realistically speaking it will be multiple years before backcatalogs are rereleased in HD-DVD, alot of the DVDs I have now will be unreplacable for quite some time and consequently i am not able to just move-on from the format like people have apparantly been able to do so easily.

i have spent time watching the samsung BD player on a Samsung 5688 DLP in low-light at Tweeter, detail was nice but artifacts and macroblocking were apparant, obvioulsy these problems will be ironed out but how long will it take? in the meantime i dont want to spoil myself on HD content, i dont have alot of major gripes with DVD quality, i see grain in the background of dark scenes but i think that is inherent of the original filming technique (ie high ISO) and if anything movies on HD-DVD will expose these flaws even more.

i am actually really torn at this point between a 42" panasonic plasma EDTV and a 50" pioneer plasma HDTV, i dont watch much HD and im worried i will prematurely spoil my DVD movie experience with the Pioneer, ive watched alot of diffeent TVs but i really need to wait untill i can bring my player and a few DVDs to a store, hook up dirrectly to a Pioneer 5070 and see for myself how much flaw is exposed at 8'. the Samsung 42" EDTV im familar with really has a nice smooth picture at 8', side by side with an HDTV both playing HDcontent there is a marginal difference in detail but likewise EDTV doesnt expose the flaws as much.
post #4 of 99
The only proprietary format that Sony has had any success with was minidisc, and that started to end once the rio300 was released. Blu-ray tried to do too much and as a result has been unable to do anything. Sony put forward too much tech at once, now thats biting them in the ass.

Ever since the two formats were announced to be seperate (after the attempts to merge them failed) I've been firmly in the HD-DVD camp. Where I remain.
post #5 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggeh
The only proprietary format that Sony has had any success with was minidisc, and that started to end once the rio300 was released. Blu-ray tried to do too much and as a result has been unable to do anything. Sony put forward too much tech at once, now thats biting them in the ass.

Ever since the two formats were announced to be seperate (after the attempts to merge them failed) I've been firmly in the HD-DVD camp. Where I remain.
im pretty sure that the the compact disc and the dvd were pretty succesful

you guys have to remember this isnt just sony behind the blu ray its many many many companies that are pouring resources and cash into this.

With the new ricoh chip people are saying that it will turn out like dvd+r vs. dvd-r, since the ricoh chip can read both
post #6 of 99
I'll probably end up getting a PS3 at some point if that counts. I duno, I don't even have a tv thats capable of taking advantage of an increase in space. What I'm really interested in is the possibility for computer backup which is why I'm hopping blue ray will win and this won't turn into a betamax vs vhs thing again. I hate vhs.
post #7 of 99
Thread Starter 
I actually consider mini disc a failure

anyhow, sony didnt creat dvd and cd, it was a joint venture amongst several ce companies. Sony however is the head of Blu Ray, only to be supported by other companies. This is because they refused to decide on a unified format, so Sony basically gave the finger to everyone on HD DVD and created another format. I suppose if BD hits big they cash in big time.

They saw dollar signs and want their own proprietary format as the standard.
post #8 of 99
Just like quicksand.
post #9 of 99
Once again, Ken sums it up nicely.

BTW, the first universal BR/HD-DVD transport mechanism is being shopped around. So in a year or so, we won't have to choose! If either make it that long. As I've said in a previous thread, in my hands on experience on good equipment, the difference between upsampled DVD and the new formats is nothing mind blowing.

The formats are young though, so who knows.
post #10 of 99
you have to be able to look at the situation from sony perspective too
people are b*tching that the Blu-ray drive is upping the cost of the PS3 too much like its only use will be 1080p movies. its a security measure against piracy that sony will be able to control very tightly.

that is a commendable effort and by all means Sony should be concerned with developing a media to keep their content safe. where they are sh*tting on everyone is by lobbying other manufactures and studios to support it as the next HD movie format and digital storage medium, leaving HD-DVD to compete.

just think if HD-DVD actually does lose the war and become extinct... i dont want sony controlling all my media.
post #11 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
I actually consider mini disc a failure

anyhow, sony didnt creat dvd and cd, it was a joint venture amongst several ce companies. Sony however is the head of Blu Ray, only to be supported by other companies. This is because they refused to decide on a unified format, so Sony basically gave the finger to everyone on HD DVD and created another format. I suppose if BD hits big they cash in big time.

They saw dollar signs and want their own proprietary format as the standard.
i disagree, blu ray is a joint venture between sony and phillips (+148 companies in varying amounts). Sony may be spearheading this format, but they arent alone in it, sony isnt the only one developing technologies and other companies saying "ya we'll do it after you develop it."

I could care less which one wins and hell it may go the way of laser disc. I see a strong bias to hd dvd for some reason, and many on the internet are supporting blu ray

i.e. http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/06/t...-ray-will-win/

For all we know this could and imo go the way of dvd-r verse dvd+r

Just hope Ricohs technology is used and we'll be fine
post #12 of 99
Go the way of laserdisc? Which for hardcore videophiles was still the format of choice over DVD?

I love mine. :-)
post #13 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo_
i disagree, blu ray is a joint venture between sony and phillips (+148 companies in varying amounts). Sony may be spearheading this format, but they arent alone in it, sony isnt the only one developing technologies and other companies saying "ya we'll do it after you develop it."

I could care less which one wins and hell it may go the way of laser disc. I see a strong bias to hd dvd for some reason, and many on the internet are supporting blu ray

i.e. http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/06/t...-ray-will-win/

For all we know this could and imo go the way of dvd-r verse dvd+r

Just hope Ricohs technology is used and we'll be fine

that article is a year old, the new engadget article doesnt like blu ray

http://gaming.engadget.com/2006/07/1...ayer-reviewed/

here are some recent articles about BD format now that people have used it in real life and not just rely on Sonys propoganda pre-release

http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm
http://theadvertiser.gns.gannettonli...0392/1001/tech
http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...Dupperhand.php
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6348887.html
http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-...tialreport.htm
http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature...round_one.html
post #14 of 99
I've said it from the start, and I still stand by it: IF either format is going to catch on at all it will be HD-DVD, but I still think it is highly likely that both may fail.
post #15 of 99
With the US economy the way it is, I don't think it's a good time to be launching a new format. With disposable incomes as low as they are, I don't think a lot of people are going to be eager to invest a lot of money in new machines and new copies of material that they already own on DVD. Somewhere in their quest for world domination, Sony completely forgot about the concept of value.
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