M3 - Second Biggest Disappointment Ever - Page 3

Then why did you buy the M3, if you already knew what was expected?

Nods. An amp can improve soundstaging, speed, control and clarity but it won't change frequency response in any meaningful way thats the headphones job.

An example of this is the Senn 600. Poorly amped you get a lot of its vieled, congested, muddy... but from people running great, not necessarily pricy, amps the viel drops(clarity), congestion gives way to great separation(speed) and muddy gives way to involving bass(control). But what you never hear is SinglePower SDS users going on about how the amp makes the Senn 600 as bright or forward as a Grado RS1 since thats mostly frequency response based.

I think once upon a time gerG posted the SA5000's response. It had pretty flat bass comparable to the Beyer 880. If the house thing doesn't interest you you might want to try an AKG 701, Beyer 990 or Senn 650 to bring in some honest contrast to the Sony. Then build around the can you really prefer. I could never live with the Sony 5000, Grado RS1 or Beyer 880 as my only cans. That doesn't mean others can't but doesn't mean you can either

Is that so? I was not under the impression the M3 was typically regarded as smooth and warm. Well in any case disregard my comments, M3 owners or people more exposed to them certainly can speak a lot better about it than me.

You are awesome.

I believe what you are finding is crap in = crap out. I suggest holding on to the M³ until you have upgraded your source. As you said, economically speaking you've already taken the hit, the value isn't going to go down drastically in the couple weeks it takes to get your new source.

Nate

I believe you shouldn't expect more differences from a new amp than a new headphone. You shouldn't expect an amp upgrade to yield such great sonic results either.

Ah I see where things went wrong. Headphones gives the biggest difference in sound presentation not quality. Which is really just saying that a Grado and Senn sound different in an obvious way but in presentation not quality.

Its about balance, a Senn 650 is wasted on an iPod just a Merdian G08 is wasted on iPod buds. Both of those scenarios will sound awful since no one piece can rise above itself. For your rig, no matter how much you dump into amps and headphone neither can up the quality of the source's feed. At best they can do no harm and in the cans case alter the presentation in a hopefully preferable way.

Given your impression I'd guess the M3 is doing just that. Its not changed the source's presentation, but has improved on the faults of the stereo amp by providing better control and speed in the bass.

The bad news is deals in the source market are scarce. You really either need to be running a PC rig where there are deals to be had or spend to get where you want. In my opinion the quality differences in the sub 500 range are more sidesteps than upgrades and in the 500-2000 range you get some nice rewards for your dollar and then diminishing returns kick in 2000+. Year matters too. Last year's 1000 player could very well be this year's $500 player. Sorry

I'll add to that, that I think a 4:2:1 ratio works pretty well in headphones. So for your Sony 5000(~350?) you're looking at a 1400 source, 700 amp and the 350 for the Sony to hit dimishing returns. Lots of choices on AudioGon for sources in that range, SinglePower PPX SLAM, HeadAmp GS1, Mapletree Ear+ HD, HeadRoom Desktop, Corda HA2... for amps. But start at the source. Otherwise you might as well be building a system around an MP3 collection Oh and for amps and sources buy used, let the rich guy eat the cost of retail

Looking at your profile though... the Sony is a poor choice for electronica. You'd find the Senn 650 or Beyer 990 far more involving for bass rich, melodic rhythum. Deja Vu for today but Massive Attack through the Senn 650 is an experience

Here's to hoping it rocks your socks off. And I know you've already said you don't believe in the whole "amp burn in thing" but I'd just suggest that just because you don't close a door doesn't mean that you're forced through it either. Give it a chance.

Again, if your source is putting out garbage and your headphones are inadequately driven I wouldn't expect to hear a large difference between headphones either. You've eliminated one possibility (with the M³) so follow through and check the other obvious one.

Regards,

Nate

@OP:

Well, one sure way to see if you really can/cannot tell the difference between your M3 and your old stereo amp is this: listen to the SA5K+M3+Sony SACD player for a week or two, and then go back to your old setup. If you still can't hear a difference, then you will know for certain whether you want to continue with this hobby or not. And for that duration in which you are listening to your new setup, don't focus on JUST looking for differences. Instead, just listen to it as you would listen to any other setup and enjoy the music. So basically live with your new setup for a week or two, and then make a final decision. The reason I say this is because like someone else said earlier: you've already taken the financial hit, and waiting a week or two will not decrease the market value of your components.