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Real Wood vs. MDF Speaker boxes.

post #1 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
I've heard that MDF(Medium Density Fiberboard) when it is cut. The saw dust, if you inhale it, it doesn't leave your body like abestos.

I noticed most speaker manufacturers make their speaker out of MDF and they use a wood veneer.

Am I the only one that is bothered by this.

I know the normal argument is that MDF is less likely to vibrate and create resonance. But introducing potentially toxic elements in your home environment bothers me.

I guess normally people don't care because speaker manufacturers wouldn't continue this building process.

Does anybody feel the same about this, and how did you resolve this problem?
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post #2 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnesto
Does anybody feel the same about this, and how did you resolve this problem?
yes...I built my last set of speakers out of birch plywood. There's a long thread on the topic somewhere over at diyaudio. If you just want to buy speakers, check out Cain & Cain. Terry hates MDF probably even more than you.
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post #3 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:25pm
MDF imo is pretty nasty stuff, it is particles of wood held together with glue. The wood is only one concern the vinyl or formica is another. some give off volitole chemichals, like formaldahyde, all this is sposed to have guidelines as to how much vto's it gives off...sometimes it's not met, I read recently furniture manufacture Ikea had recalled some furniture for not meeting those guidelines.
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post #4 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:38pm
It's not like the speaker boxes are shedding loose dust....I can't see this as being at all dangerous even in the long term. I'd imagine breathing the black smoke from behind the last diesel truck you drove behind as being more harmful.
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post #5 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:41pm
It's not just the dust per se, you can't see it but they do put out a certain amount of chemicals just sitting there....
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post #6 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdriver
It's not like the speaker boxes are shedding loose dust....I can't see this as being at all dangerous even in the long term. I'd imagine breathing the black smoke from behind the last diesel truck you drove behind as being more harmful.
I assumed the OP was building speakers...not only does MDF generate a ton of sawdust, the sawdust makes you itch.

If you're just buying speakers, it probably doesn't matter in the short term, since MDF is always wrapped in veneer or vinyl laminate. The truly environmentally conscious, however, will note that someday those speakers will leach all of their nasty chemicals into a landfill somewhere...

Just another nod to Cain & Cain...their stuff is all furniture grade, and you'd be more likely to pass them down to your grandkids than dump 'em in a landfill.
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post #7 of 27
6/20/06 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdriver
It's not like the speaker boxes are shedding loose dust....I can't see this as being at all dangerous even in the long term. I'd imagine breathing the black smoke from behind the last diesel truck you drove behind as being more harmful.
I'd have to agree. OK, so maybe they put off some trace amount of chemicals into the air... So does the cleaning spray I use on my kitchen... And my monitor puts off ozone... my TV too for that matter... And I'd imagine that if I did enough research I could find that my microwave is giving me cancer.

I think it is really sad when people worry themselves to death over such small things as these. Have a beer and relax man... Enjoy life for what it is, and I think you will find yourself a much better person for it.
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post #8 of 27
6/20/06 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnesto
I've heard that MDF(Medium Density Fiberboard) when it is cut. The saw dust, if you inhale it, it doesn't leave your body like abestos.
It's always wise to protect yourself when dust is involved.
Besides of that dust from cutting MDF isn't that dangerous.The particles aren't small enough to cause permanent problems unless you are exposed regularly to it, and a sealed end product doesn't emit any dust nor a significant amount of formaldehyde.
The latter was a problem in former times and did add to the sick building syndrome, but not anymore since emission is strongly regulated nowadays, at least in Europe.
If you want something to worry about look at cigarette smoke, diesel cars and trucks, camp fire respective any romantic ingle fire , candles and some industrial processes.
All these do emit finest dust your body can't get rid of.
In fact our ancestors were way more exposed to dangerous dust.
Admittedly they didn't live that long .........
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post #9 of 27
6/21/06 at 12:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarke68
I assumed the OP was building speakers...
I don't think the OP was talking about building speakers, he's bothered than speaker makers are using it.
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post #10 of 27
6/21/06 at 1:23am
don't different types of solid wood have different tone characteristics? on acoustic guitars different woods give different sound signatures, so you get the sound of the resonating wood and strings. with cheaper laminate guitars the wood imparts no sonic characterics, so you just get the sound of the resonating strings.

i assumed MDF (like laminates on guitars) imparted no sonic signature and is very solid which is desirable for speaker building. i'm just assuming all this based on my experience with guitars.... or am i far off on this?
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post #11 of 27
6/21/06 at 4:56am
Most mfg's use MDF to build speakers because MDF is cheap and dense. In order to get the same density you are looking at furniture ply, but furniture ply isn't the cheapest thing in the world. Nice furniture ply cost any where between 3-4 times the price of MDF.

In terms of sound quality, if two comparing boxes were built the same and supplied with the same drivers. You wouldn't hear a big difference in sound.
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post #12 of 27
6/21/06 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yo2tup2
don't different types of solid wood have different tone characteristics? on acoustic guitars different woods give different sound signatures, so you get the sound of the resonating wood and strings. with cheaper laminate guitars the wood imparts no sonic characterics, so you just get the sound of the resonating strings.

i assumed MDF (like laminates on guitars) imparted no sonic signature and is very solid which is desirable for speaker building. i'm just assuming all this based on my experience with guitars.... or am i far off on this?
Laminate is different from MDF (medium density fiberboard). Furniture ply and laminate are superior to MDF.
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post #13 of 27
6/21/06 at 5:38am
I did wonder once why speakers weren't built with solid wood and I was told that they are way too reflective (sound-wise) and so will not make a good enclosure material. So if that is what you were wondering too in the first place...

On the topic, I don't think MDF poses that much of a danger, esp. compared to asbestos dust and even vehicle emission gases. The hairs in your nose will block them well enough and a simple dust mask will give more than adequate protection.

Regards.
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post #14 of 27
6/21/06 at 2:51pm
Thread Starter 
Some of it is paranoia, but you know the leading cause of cancer death among men is lung cancer.

Cancer's 3 leading causes are: environment, radiation, and viruses.

I'm trying to limit my exposure to toxic building materials used in my home building supplies as well as furniture, speakers, and other things in my home.

Hypothetically, there could be MDF dust inside your speakers. The vibration caused by sound could make the dust particles move into the air and out through the bass port in your speaker.

Normally substances like abestos kills people based on duration of exposure and concentration of particles while being exposed.

And on the other hand, I believe natural wood particles that you are exposed to. Your body can eliminate through normal cleaning cycles like flem. Because your body has been exposed to these particles over generations and has been designed to clean itself out. But new building materials like MDF, abestos, lead, etc., your body does not have a process to break down and eliminate these substances.

I have worked too hard and lived too cheap. So, I want to have the benefits of a long and healthy life. To me, 1% contamination is unacceptable.
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post #15 of 27
6/21/06 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnesto
I have worked too hard and lived too cheap. So, I want to have the benefits of a long and healthy life.
Whenever somebody says "hypothetically speaking"....that's definitely paranoia talking.

It seems to me that worrying over such small things can also cause premature death. The lung cancer you are talking about is mostly due to smoking and much more common airborne particulates. There are many things that will more likely kill you prematurely before any MDF related sickness if there is such a thing.

Enjoy life and don't worry so much.
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