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Hmmm...guess burn-in is real... - Page 2

post #16 of 278
6/8/06 at 11:29pm
One of my Wifes' favorite TV shows is called, I think, "Ghost Whisperer."

We have had an off and on argument for the better part of the last 38 years about ghosts and stuff like that.

Like I keep telling her: "It's not that I don't believe in ghosts and alien visitations, it's just that there's so little actual data to base a judgement on."

....I think I'd rather hang my hat on burn-in than ghosts however.
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post #17 of 278
6/8/06 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Like I keep telling her: "It's not that I don't believe in ghosts and alien visitations, it's just that there's so little actual data to base a judgement on."
Have you read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan? It's an outstanding book and a pretty easy read with extremely interesting discussions about things like that.
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post #18 of 278
6/9/06 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodbac
Have you read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan? It's an outstanding book and a pretty easy read with extremely interesting discussions about things like that.
Carl was a cool dude and it's a shame he passed on. He will be missed.

I haven't read that particular book, but I'm familiar with much of his philosophy, and have a pretty good guess about it's content!

He was waiting for more data to back up his hypothesies too!
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post #19 of 278
6/9/06 at 12:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Driver burn in I can see. But solid-state amp burn in and cable burn in? Where is the reasoning behind that? What the heck is there in a cable that "burns" in? It's just basicly a wire that transfers an electric signal to it's destination.
There's more moving parts in a Amp than headphones! You just cant see the parts move in a SS device.
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post #20 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:03am
Things change their molecular structure or composition all the time, and it doesn't have to be just moving parts. Look at heat treatments for example, or magnetization of metals. Don't you think a flow of electrons could affect the wires on an atomic scale?
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post #21 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:24am
Quote:
Don't you think a flow of electrons could affect the wires on an atomic scale?
Er, no, not in any way that affects their ability to transmit an audio signal (and please don't think anyone is guessing about that).

[edit]

Here's a question I'm truly interested in hearing the answer to:

For those of you who believe in things like, say, "cable burn in", is there anything in any field (not just audio) that you think DOES sound like bullsht (ghosts, alien abductions, werewolves, sasquatch, Nessie, etc)? Is there anything you won't buy into with your bar for believability set so low?

Serious question.
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post #22 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:29am
Burn-in absolutely exists.

I found a reference track on one of my CDs and singled out a part the DT880 had trouble with that even my two portable ATs (and my two Sonys) could get better than it. Got real familiar with how it sounded. Then once it hit 300 hours, suddenly it was able to get it a lot more (not fully however). So burn-in is real foolz!
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post #23 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Driver burn in I can see. But solid-state amp burn in and cable burn in? Where is the reasoning behind that? What the heck is there in a cable that "burns" in? It's just basicly a wire that transfers an electric signal to it's destination.
Well, I know that the dielectric in cables and capacitors will slowly change over time (dielectric constant changes), up to a point. I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes, but there is physical change happening in solid-state gear over many hours of operation.
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post #24 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr
Burn-in absolutely exists.

I found a reference track on one of my CDs and singled out a part the DT880 had trouble with that even my two portable ATs (and my two Sonys) could get better than it. Got real familiar with how it sounded. Then once it hit 300 hours, suddenly it was able to get it a lot more (not fully however). So burn-in is real foolz!
Well, with a valid test like that, there's simply no other explanation. I stand corrected. Nice going. Call those idiot EEs who thought otherwise!

Edit: Catscratch- go read the link I furnished earlier. The dielectric has nothing to do with how well an audio signal will be conducted.
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post #25 of 278
6/9/06 at 1:46am
Quote:
I found a reference track on one of my CD...
I did the same thing for my Headphone Break-in Blog (below), with the same results. If you pin-point specific aspects of various tracks and keep everything else the same, you can look at break-in more dispassionately.

On the other hand, it's hardly proof, and unlikely to sway hardcore skeptics. Why not just let the physical/psychological process happen, and then enjoy the way your headphones change/mind adapts?
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post #26 of 278
6/9/06 at 2:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodbac
Edit: Catscratch- go read the link I furnished earlier. The dielectric has nothing to do with how well an audio signal will be conducted.
Hm. Well, the only thing I can say is the truth: I simpy don't know enough on the subject to judge which side is right here. My degree is in biology I am interested in this, however, and I will do some more independent research. I definitely heard burn-in effects in solid-state gear, but whether or not they were factual or psychoacoustic, I don't know.
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post #27 of 278
6/9/06 at 2:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EightyOne
Got my HD580 yesterday, and the bass didn't have a smooth sound. Sort of warbly, but only slightly, if you know what I mean. Had it playing music for the past 24 hours, and that problem is already gone. Didn't believe in burn-in before, but, eh, it's interesting.
yeah, it worked wonders for my HD600s...
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post #28 of 278
6/9/06 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodbac
People say the same thing about every pair of phones in existence.

Also, I couldn't tell a burned-in pair of SR-80s apart from a new pair FWIW.

Also note that I have no problem with the theory of "burn in" or "break in"- it just strikes me as odd that there's never been a formal test showing it's real (that I've seen). Just more anecdote consisting of "They changed over time!" Makes it tougher to accept because we all know the mind looks for differences and can create them if they're not there.
It would really be cool if a headphone manufacturer would fund a scientific experiment to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that burn-in does or does not exist. Like if Grado labs did this, and had 1,000 pairs of RS-1s and an undisclosed number of those 1,000 had 200 hours of burn-in, and the remainder had zero burn-in. The same musical track would be used throughout the test, and the equipment (amp, cd player, volume levels, etc) would be identical throughout the entire test. I would love to volunteer for that experiment.

I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is and bet you $1,000 of my own money that I would pick out the ones that were burned in with nearly 100% accuracy.

But alas, that is just a dream. I am pretty certain none of the headphone manufacturers would be interested in funding such a test. Ah well, would be interesting to see the outcome of such an experiment. Maybe if I hit the lottery one day I will conduct such an experiment to end the debate once and for all.
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post #29 of 278
6/9/06 at 4:33am
If you´ve ever owned a new pair of HD280s and dont believe in burn-in you have to be deaf. The diffirence is quite dramatic, take them out of the box and they sound like crap, leave them playing for a week and they´re suddenly great headphones. **** the fisical explanations (which can be quite obvious for me), "listen" and you will believe.

Cables? well, that may be a diffirent story, cant say I´ve heard burn-in in cables.
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post #30 of 278
6/9/06 at 6:50am
I would wear the headphone while it burns in. That way the quality of sound acutally increases while you listen to them and you save yourself that much time from the impending doom that is upgraditis which will sooner or later consume your body and wallet.
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