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Vinyl still the king? Am I missing something? - Page 4

post #46 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbz
nope it's usually inherint in the medium. Compared to CDs even the $20000 rig at my local audio shop sounds slightly rolled in the highs. Prehapse more like a non-OS DAC. It's not obvious untill you play 2 copies of the same album. And then it's usually a case of the CD sounding bright not the vinyl sounding dull.
more appropriate is two copies of the same album mastered by the same master engineer. After listening to the same album master by Steve Hoffman (Hotel California) the vinyl won at the top and bottom
post #47 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbz
nope it's usually inherint in the medium. Compared to CDs even the $20000 rig at my local audio shop sounds slightly rolled in the highs. Prehapse more like a non-OS DAC. It's not obvious untill you play 2 copies of the same album. And then it's usually a case of the CD sounding bright not the vinyl sounding dull.
more appropriate is two copies of the same album mastered by the same master engineer. After listening to the same album master by Steve Hoffman (Hotel California) the vinyl won at the top and bottom
your results may vary
post #48 of 91

Fruitless discussion

I got into vinyl only some 6 months ago and restored a vintage Thorens deck to get me started. I have a 200 US$ cart, a 150 US$ phono stage and a tonearm comparable to a modded RB250. Why did I do it? Not because I was seeking conevenience or to find a Berendsen killer, but simply to tap into a medium that is widely available and gets little attention these days, a huge archive of music that is largely available for zip. I aquired an extensive classical record collection at the time, from the estate of a older lady. I continued to build my collection by buying myself some famous 60+70s rock records, some 80s favourites, added some current electronica and club music, friends donated some records to my new hobby, and browsed fleamarkets and 2nd hand vinyl places in the process. After building a collection of ca 200 LPs, I calculate an average of around 3US$ per record so far, and that includes the new ones. I am amazed of the quality even older vinyl can produce with little or no cleaning effort.

To me, the experience of buying and playing back my vinyl, opened a whole new page in my audio hobby, I haven't had this much fun in years. No new headphone, amp or DAC could have could possibly had had a similar effect.

I don't doubt CD and encoded music can sound just fine, in a cost-no-object system probably better than my old vinyl. In addition, one should not forget that many CDs have the added benefit of a thorough remastering over their respective original LP pressings. That's not the point for me.

Generating playlists or clicking through music folders simply isn't my idea of a good time.
post #49 of 91
Personally I found vinyl to be inferior to my computer rig. There was something about he lack of a black floor that I couldn't get past, and my computer just seemed to have a fuller sound. Really the more I read the more I believe that peoples preferences over vinyl or mp3/lossless had to do with their priorities in audio.
post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri5peed
A finite amount of 0s and 1s versus an infinitely variable amount of data. I know digital can be extremely high-quality but 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000 0s and 1s is nothing compared to an infinite number.
Strictly speaking, vinyl is not capable of infinite resolution, since it's physically limited by the vinyl compound molecule size, and the recording/replay equipment is not capable of operating at this level, with the possible exception of a laser pickup.
post #51 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkless
That is correct. However the medium carrying that socalled infinite number and the technology used to extract it tends to end up yielding a result far worse than the finite approximation (for a lot of people, I haven't done any comparisons myself so don't shoot the messenger).
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropoint
Strictly speaking, vinyl is not capable of infinite resolution, since it's physically limited by the vinyl compound molecule size, and the recording/replay equipment is not capable of operating at this level, with the possible exception of a laser pickup.
Thats all true, but the system has the potential for infinite resolution. Its restricted by the playing equipment & other technologies of the moment. Its not going to happen but if companies wanted to, in the future you could have quite a cheap player which would blow anything digital away...in terms of numbers.
post #52 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri5peed
Thats all true, but the system has the potential for infinite resolution.
Certainly vinyl has potential for better resolution, but so has digital: just increase the sample rate and/or bit depth. But infinite? AFAIK, no playback system is going to have infinite resolution, ever. A system with no noise, capable of reproducing infinitely high frequencies with infinite loudness will not exist.


Regards,

L.
post #53 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801
comparing fairly equal priced vinyl (VPI scout/shelter 501/ASR phono pre) and cd rigs (Ayre CD7e) I have to give the nod to vinyl. While it's not true on every recording on most the vinyl had more bottom end, more life like vocals (the cd was a bit thin by comparison) and more lefe like dynamics. That's not to say the Ayre is bad, I love it and it's teh best CDP I have owned just head to head I prefer an LP. I even went so far as to balance the test by using the same master engineers versions of the same peice of music.
Hey jp, nice analog rig you got there. I got the Shelter 201 and am quite impressed with it. My phono stage is a modest Cambridge 640p, but I wonder what a ASR Mini Basis or Trigon Vanguard II could do. Thumbs up!
post #54 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattigol
Hey jp, nice analog rig you got there. I got the Shelter 201 and am quite impressed with it. My phono stage is a modest Cambridge 640p, but I wonder what a ASR Mini Basis or Trigon Vanguard II could do. Thumbs up!
OT on, how is the 201 this is Shelters first MM cart from what I know?

The mini basis is great at the pricepoint if money was no object I would like to get the big ASR, or Ray Samuels or the AR top end units.
post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbucla2005
I want my music files to sound as natural and effortless as my vinyl setup. Is it possible?
People say that Cary 303/300 with tubes sound better than vinyl. I have never listened to vinyl though. However, for me the Cary at 768 kHz upsampling is still too smooth when using the solid-state output and is unbearably warm when using tubes, it makes me get lost inside the music after 5 minutes and I can listen 16 hours straight. Is this what vinyl does?
Adding the brightest amp (T-Amp) into the signal path doesn't matter much because the source is so warm! Warmth in - warmth out.
post #56 of 91
Very similar to the NAIM experiences. It is definitly possible to get enjoyable sound out of cds. But at $4000 for the NAIM CD5x more for the CD2x, or $10000 for the Electrocompaniet ECD-3, is just not as cheap as vinyl.
post #57 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801
OT on, how is the 201 this is Shelters first MM cart from what I know?
Since this thread is losing speed fairly quickly, I think it's ok if I continued OT. I have a friend with a TD125, an SME IV and an Ortofon naked SPU into some 5000€ amp and some 10.000€ speakers, all very carefully selected and making for a groovy system. By comparison, I think my shoestring rig holds its own quite well. Definitely high fidelity in da house with good definition, balance and extension. The music just flows naturally. My Berendsen throws a larger soundstage and has better bass definition, but per dollar spent, I couldn't be happier. I think if I wanted to take my system to another level, I'd have to start by upgrading my speakers to some Living Voice OBX-R2 and take it from there.
post #58 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82
it makes me get lost inside the music after 5 minutes and I can listen 16 hours straight. Is this what vinyl does?
Actually, for me, that is exactly what vinyl does. You could almost get lost forever in trancendant joy.

It is a good thing, then, that those brilliant, forward thinking designers of vinyl built a protective fail safe into the system to help prevent us from getting lost in vinyl and never returning. You have to come back every twenty minutes to flip the record. Good thing digital on a hard drive isn't as compelling as vinyl, or there would be no one left to read posts.
post #59 of 91
A new life indeed and a new mortgage as well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JahJahBinks
Audio Note DAC 5.0 will give your CDs a new life.
As for cd vs LP; i heard both really high end setups and it was really hard to tell the difference. I would give the edge to LP for a little less sharpness. Although the new super cd players should have solved this too(meridian, lindemann). I think a good cd setup is as well as a good LP setup. Also, the new xrcd's are sounding much, much better! It seems that there is still alot to gain in cd production!
post #60 of 91
Oh yes I heard my first XRCD a few days ago. I did like the sound, but like all things digital in my system it presented very brightly. Becomethemould who brought it over liked it, but then i'm used to the dulled down sound so I still prefer the vinyl. Mind you the vinyl copy was old so probably is duller then when it was new.
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