suggestions for amps well suited for both hd650 and grados?

Hmm.. well the first question I woud ask is, what's your budget? There are a number of amps that work pretty well with grados and senns. Gilmore Lite, GS1, Micro Amp, PINT, PPX3 SLAM, MPX3 SLAM, etc..

That being said if you're trily that bothered by the Senns darkness I'm not sure an amp would help at all... You might be better served with a different can, although depending on what you're looking for, maybe someithng like the HD600 or the k701 might serve you better as the Grados are quite the departure from the 650s.

As the previous poster stated it is hard to make recommendation about an amp without knowing more about your budget, and other needs.

I can tell you that I have a SinglePower PPX3 SLAM, and that it changed the chracter of my hd600's substantially. Brought up the high end and made them much more dynamic. In the post above they suggested that you might want to consider AKG's, etc. The AKG's need an amp every bit as much as the 600/650's, as do the Beyers, do to perform their best.

No matter which brand of amp you get I would encourage you to consider a tube amp. They come in a wide price range and offer a very musical experience.

- augustwest

At $350.00 the Eddie Current EC-01 would be a good choice, if you want to spend a little more, and don't mind a DIY project you might investigate the MapleTree HD Purist. The Mapletree should be ideal for both the Sennheisers & the Grados, should you get them later. By the way the MapleTree come both as a kit, and assembled for a slightly higher price.

- augustwest

I love my MAD Earplus HD "extream" with my Grado 325i and it was nice with AKG 401's as i remember, but I haven't enjoyed it with my Senn 580's.
The sound is a bit smudged and gritty. When compared to a Govibe3.

I have a Mapletree Ear Purist + HD100 and everything I have thrown at it sounds great. So far is my favorite all around amp. A second much cheaper alternative is the Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 specially if you have it modded a la PinkFloyd.

Darkness...

If your not using an amp for your Senn's, getting one will improve their punchyness and be able to have a more balanced Low, Mids and Hi's. If you want to clear them up and get rid of that Sennheiser "veil", you will need to change your cable. The 650's cable has somewhat been improved compared to the 600's, but will you benefit the most (for the darkness) from changing your cable. I have a Cardas for my 600's and it did for me. But I would definitely get an amp. Do you need it to be portable?

I would still look into Grado's. Their RS series can compete with your 650's, though they will have a different sound, and they too get the most brought out of them with Grado's amp. But if you look in the SR series, you'll get some of the best cans you can get for your money. And at 32 ohm's, you're getting great cans that can be driven buy just about any source (portable cd player, mp3 play, sound card...), which is not the case of the 650's.

I'm not vouching for any of these two brands in particular, as I own a pair of SR-225's and HD-600's. They both sound awesome, have their strenghts and sound.

I'd look into a good amp (can't recommend any non-portable one's as I'm not it that market yet) to help out your 650's and any amp that'll drive the 650's (300 ohm) properly, will do more than a good job on a pair of Grado's (32 ohm) if you decide to try them out.

Definitely get a high end replacement cable for your 650's before giving up on them (and give them time to burn in if you just got them, 100 hours avg.) and watch them amaze you when you combine that with a good amp and source. If that doesn't do it for you for the 650's, maybe the 650's aren't for you (i wouldn't rule out all of the other Senn models, as they don't all have the same sound, ex: HD-595 (50 ohm) don't sound the same as the HD-580's of HD-600 (300 ohm))

All of this, in my humble opinion

Spanky

cable

I agree on the cable upgrade.. An improved cable will change the 650's delivery dramatically.

As for amps, depends on what you're really looking to accentuate in your listening. Headroom amps synergize well (for many apps) with sennheiser cans...

Not for Grados *and* Senns without spending $300 extra on the EC/DC downconverter. Maybe not the best choice in this instance.

The darkness

That darkness you couldn't describe is exactly what is know as the Senn veil. Trust me, the cable is the way to go to clear that up, and then the amp will add some balance, imo.

Call around and see if you can find a Cardas authorized dealer to try out the cable. The 650's a very popular, if your lucky, maybe a fellow head-fier near you could treat you to a sample

Spanky

I agree with that to a point. That could be describing the veil (or what we associate as the veil) or it could not be. The HD650s are an inherently bass heavy (quantity wise) and dark headphone. While a cable may work a ways to clear that up, in my experience a good headamp or more importanly a source upgrade could do a fair bit more if those parts in the chain are inherently weak. I've run the 650s with sources ranging from PCDPs (out of the headphone out) to what many would consider reference or higher level CDPs and IMO a good source does a fair bit more with the veil and congestion (that I feel is what the veil is) that is it's biggest syptom that epitomizes the veil. I've also heard a few aftermarket cables (GF2, Equinox, Zu, GE) with the 650s and while they do help to a degree, depending on what apect you're trying to address, a cable may or may not help.

If you haven't done the "remove the foam" mod on your Hd650s - thats the first step. Do a search on it here and you will get loads of info. To put it simply, you remove the foam liner inside the earcup and replace it with something more transparent - something like pantyhose. Its very easy to do. Hook your finger under the earpad at one end of the pad and pull out a little, then do the same at the other end, repeat until the earpad just clips out of place. Cut out a piece of pantyhose the same size as the foam liner and lay it in the earcup. Replace the earpad. As it clips into place it stretches the material to give a neat finish.

sound definitely clears some with this mod. Best thing is that its completely reversible in the space of a minute if you don't like it.

I just received a little dot 2 amp this week and am very impressed with the sound. These amps had some quality control issues in the past - supposed to be sorted out now. I'm still running mine in so its too early to comment on that aspect, but the sound is just gorgeous so far!

Fran

mrarroyo, what tubes are you using in the ear purist?