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My K1000 journey (a blog) - Page 2

post #16 of 156
Thread Starter 

E-mail from Stephan Audio Arts

Published with permission...

Hello Kent,

1. How long is the exposed wire for the silver soldered ends?

3/8" long - but we can make it longer or shorter if you need.

2. Do feel there’s any loss of sound quality for going 15’ (vs. say 10 foot)?

Absolutely no lost in sound quality from 8-ft to over 30-ft. With less than 8-ft there is sound quality loss. This applies to the signal out of an amplifier only - line level signals do not apply.

3. How do I pay?

You can either order on line with a credit card or Fax or phone your order in.

4. How flexible is the cable? Will I be able to easily coil excess cable by my chair?

Extremely flexible - but we highly recommend the cable either be elevated or come in contact with wood or cement surface only. We strongly recommend the cable not be coiled - as it would result in a loss of sound quality.

5. Approximately how much time before delivery?

There is about a 12-13 week wait currently.

6. Do you mind if I publish your answers in my K1000 blog at Headfi.com?

You are welcome to publish my answers at HeadFi.com.

Kind regards,

James


New questions to ask (via phone):

1. In what ways will sound change vs stock cable?

2. Clarify answer to 4.

3. Discuss cable lengths, terminations and amount of bare wire.

4. Validate angle for sub to fit in physical space (right vs. left run, etc.)

EDIT: Add phone # for SAA... 860-521-2563
post #17 of 156
I applaud you for trying new things, but IMHO, you have picked the wrong subwoofer and x-over to mate with K1000. The Vandersteen subwoofer system is designed to work best with Vandersteen main speakers, and as such, trying to integrate it with something like K1000 will be very, very difficult.

Two things are most difficult to work around.

1. Vandersteen website:
"To compensate for the low frequency roll-off induced by the crossover, the response of the 2Wq ’s amplifier is contoured to restore the low frequencies to the proper level."

What this means is that the in-line Vandersteen filter rolls off bass BEFORE the signal gets to the main amp. Since the Vandy subwoofer takes the speaker-level signal from the amp AFTER the bass has been rolled off, the sub has active EQ circuitry to bump up the bass frequencies by 6dB slope to make up for the loss.

To me, this is a very curious choice of subwoofer design since you are rolling off the bass, then later trying to re-create it with EQ.

2. The sub's crossover point is 80Hz (very high), and since the slope is 6dB (very shallow), the subwoofer is actually producing sounds much, much higher than 80Hz at a relatively high level. This may work well with purpose-built Vandy speakers, but it's recipe for disaster for other speakers, and especially something as different as K1000.

IME, the best way to integrate K1000 with subwoofers is to let K1000 just play full-range without any crossover filter. Then you can bring in a subwoofer at a much lower crossover point by tuning by ear, say around 40-50Hz, at a much steeper slope, possibly at least 18-24dB per octave. Then you can play with K1000/sub positioning and phase dial to achieve the blend..
post #18 of 156
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L
I applaud you for trying new things, but IMHO, you have picked the wrong subwoofer and x-over to mate with K1000. The Vandersteen subwoofer system is designed to work best with Vandersteen main speakers, and as such, trying to integrate it with something like K1000 will be very, very difficult.

Two things are most difficult to work around.

1. Vandersteen website:
"To compensate for the low frequency roll-off induced by the crossover, the response of the 2Wq ’s amplifier is contoured to restore the low frequencies to the proper level."

What this means is that the in-line Vandersteen filter rolls off bass BEFORE the signal gets to the main amp. Since the Vandy subwoofer takes the speaker-level signal from the amp AFTER the bass has been rolled off, the sub has active EQ circuitry to bump up the bass frequencies by 6dB slope to make up for the loss.

To me, this is a very curious choice of subwoofer design since you are rolling off the bass, then later trying to re-create it with EQ.

2. The sub's crossover point is 80Hz (very high), and since the slope is 6dB (very shallow), the subwoofer is actually producing sounds much, much higher than 80Hz at a relatively high level. This may work well with purpose-built Vandy speakers, but it's recipe for disaster for other speakers, and especially something as different as K1000.

IME, the best way to integrate K1000 with subwoofers is to let K1000 just play full-range without any crossover filter. Then you can bring in a subwoofer at a much lower crossover point by tuning by ear, say around 40-50Hz, at a much steeper slope, possibly at least 18-24dB per octave. Then you can play with K1000/sub positioning and phase dial to achieve the blend..
Any suggestions on brand or model? And again, I already own this. So if it works satisfactorily, it's free.
post #19 of 156
Thread Starter 

Call with James Serdechny from SAA

Just got off a call with James from Stephan Audio Arts. Great guy, very helpful. Also a big fan of K1000s. Notes...

1. In what ways will sound change vs stock cable?
- Warmer mids
- Better balance
- Fuller low end

2. Clarify answer to 4.
- Highly recommends cables not be placed on carpet while listening

3. Discuss cable lengths, terminations and amount of bare wire.
- Bare wire: One solid contact point is ideal

4. Validate angle for sub to fit in physical space (right vs. left run, etc.)
- Decided to hold off on getting anything special for the sub

James recommended I checkout Maple Shade Records, for isolation products and static treatment.

Also said to give strong consideration to removing the inner grill. Here's a post related to this option: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177252

BTW: I ordered a 15' hardwire.
post #20 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore
Published with permission...

Hello Kent,

1. How long is the exposed wire for the silver soldered ends?

3/8" long - but we can make it longer or shorter if you need.

2. Do feel there’s any loss of sound quality for going 15’ (vs. say 10 foot)?

Absolutely no lost in sound quality from 8-ft to over 30-ft. With less than 8-ft there is sound quality loss. This applies to the signal out of an amplifier only - line level signals do not apply.

3. How do I pay?

You can either order on line with a credit card or Fax or phone your order in.

4. How flexible is the cable? Will I be able to easily coil excess cable by my chair?

Extremely flexible - but we highly recommend the cable either be elevated or come in contact with wood or cement surface only. We strongly recommend the cable not be coiled - as it would result in a loss of sound quality.

5. Approximately how much time before delivery?

There is about a 12-13 week wait currently.

6. Do you mind if I publish your answers in my K1000 blog at Headfi.com?

You are welcome to publish my answers at HeadFi.com.

Kind regards,

James


New questions to ask (via phone):

1. In what ways will sound change vs stock cable?

2. Clarify answer to 4.

3. Discuss cable lengths, terminations and amount of bare wire.

4. Validate angle for sub to fit in physical space (right vs. left run, etc.)

EDIT: Add phone # for SAA... 860-521-2563
Are you getting the hardwired upgrade as well as the speaker terminal extension?
post #21 of 156
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pak
Are you getting the hardwired upgrade as well as the speaker terminal extension?
No. I've moved my monitors over to a receiver, connected to DVD / TV. So basically I'm dedicating my 2ch rig to K1000s. Obviously I can switch back to speakers in the future as desired.

So here's what I'll be doing...

Components listed in order they appear in the audio chain. Links to reviews and such can be found in my sig.

Wadia 830 CDP w/ balanced outs: I also use the Wadia as a headamp for balanced 650s



Balanced cables & balanced crossover: Crossover rolls-off signals below 80Hz at 6db per octave -- so K1000s / amp are not burdened by low frequencies



Ayre V3 w/ K level update: Fully balanced stereo amp; zero feedback; running in Class A operation (w/ K1000s)





K1000 HARDWIRE AND SUBWOOFER CONNECTIONS FIT HERE; both directly connected to Ayre's speaker terminals.



K1000s & Vandersteen 2W sub: Sub restores low frequencies using internal 300 watt amp with adjustable gain [2W was designed for music as opposed to home theater]

post #22 of 156
Thread Starter 

K1000 hardwire: Redwine Audio, Inc. price quote

Vinnie Rossi, from Red Wine Audio gave permission to publish his price quote for K1000 hardwire installation...

Hi Kent,

If you send me your K1000s and the upgraded cable, I can do the installation for $199.00 + return shipping.

Best regards,

Vinnie Rossi
Red Wine Audio, Inc.
[mailto:vinnie@redwineaudio.com]
www.redwineaudio.com


Tweaks so far:
- Hardwired 15-ft terminated with silver soldered ends : $359
- Red Wine installation : $199
- Total : $558 plus shipping

This leaves ~ $400 in the tweak budget. Unfortunately, my wish list keeps getting longer. I may decide to sell some gear, or wait for B-day or X-mass to complete my shopping list.
post #23 of 156
Thread Starter 

Mapleshade stuff

Pulled this off an old post by sacd lover. Their stuff is pretty cheap, and James from Stephan made a pretty strong unsolicited pitch for the same items / concepts mentioned below. James was also very strong on Mapleshade's vibration control products, which again appear to be reasonably priced compared to the alternatives http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/index.php...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover
The ionoclast does work from my experience, and not just on cds, but cables as well. With cds the static buildup is a result of of the magnetic fields interaction (while spinning) with minute particles in the aluminum or paint of the cd that can be magnitized.
I like to use the ionoclast prior to burning a cd; and then on the copy. I have listened critically to cds before and after using the ionoclast; and the ionoclast treated cd is less edgy, is how I would describe my perception of the difference.

Microsmooth is another mapleshade product I like. For example, using the two together I can pick out the treated copy vs the untreated copy of Eric Claptons "Just One Night" cd every time blind. My wife and friend are always amazed I can do this.

The ionoclast has to be used on a cd every 10 plays or so as the static buids up again. The microsmooth is a one time treatment.

Keeping cables off the floor away from static is a proven tweek. The carpet acts as a horrible dialectric and static build up occurs as well. The ionoclast can remove the static from your cables; just make sure they are disconnected from any sources.

First ionoclast your cables and listen to the improvement. Then clean all your connections with pro gold or some brand of connector cleaner and listen to the sound open up even more. I usually do both together but if your curious do them seperately. You definately hear a very positive improvement; or atleast I do.


Edit: Updated phone #

Contact info...

For order status, tracking and general music/audio product info please call (301) 627-7922. We're open from 10 am to 8 pm EST. If your reach our voice mail, please leave your name and daytime telephone number. Your call will be returned promptly.
post #24 of 156
Kent,
slightly off topic.
Have you had a chance of trying the K1000 directely out of the Wadia?
Also, have you tried the Wadia with any single ended headphones?
One more: have you compared the SQ of the HD650 balanced out of the Wadia with any other balanced headphone amps?

Regarding my soobwoofer, I placed it immediately in the position recommended by the manufacturer, near one of the corners on the same side of the room as the main speakers and never had any problems: the integration is very good and I cannot localize the source of the bass at all. I set the cross-over at around 70hz and set the volume at around 10%
post #25 of 156
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic
Have you had a chance of trying the K1000 directely out of the Wadia?
No. I don't have any female XLRs. [If anyone wants to loan an AKG tail with female XLRs. I'd be glad to give this a try.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic
Also, have you tried the Wadia with any single ended headphones?
Yes. I used a Radio Shack Gold RCA adaptor (which could have some impact on SQ?). Tried K701s, HD650 / Zu, and HD 600 Cardas. No comparison, the balanced was MUCH better. [Go to meet impressions and search on the latest Nashville meet.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic
One more: have you compared the SQ of the HD650 balanced out of the Wadia with any other balanced headphone amps?
No, I've not had the opportunity. But check out impressions from Nashville members -- some had heard SDS-XLR with 650 / Zu, and thought Wadia to be doing a good job. I was using Moon Blue Dragon in Nashville. Now using Zu, which IMO is a better match for Wadia / balanced. Use the link to my journal below where you will find my impressions on Moon vs. Zu (the Zu offers much more detail in my setup).

Also, I shipped my Zu and the RCA adaptor off to Wadia today. They're hosting a headfi meet on the 13th. You can watch meet impressions section to see what others think (I will not be at the Wadia meet).
post #26 of 156
Thread Starter 

Extreme subwoofer

Poked around on the Web so see options for sub woofers. If money were no object, this one looks like a keeper... http://www.stereophile.com/subwoofer...ne/index2.html

My weakest links as I now see them:
1.) Highs can be a bit bright, especially on commercial recordings. I believe the Equinox should be a big help here.
2.) Bass integration. I've made some progress through experimentation, but this is still the weakest link. I plan to do a week or so additional burn-in without the xover / sub. During this time I can cleanse my 'base-pallet' (sp?), and give K1000 drivers more time to loosen up.

EDIT: I wish I could spell
post #27 of 156
Thread Starter 

SAA purchase confirmation e-mail

Most interesting, SSA provides an exact ship date...

Thank you for your order.

One (1) Stefan AudioArt Hardwired K1000 15-ft Audiophile Headphone Cable with Silver Soldered Ends is scheduled to ship July 29, 2006, Insured Priority Express and will arrive in 2-3 days from ship date.

You will be sent another email with a tracking number when your K1000 headphone cable ships to the following address:

xxxxxxxxxx

After you break in the cable and engage in some serious listening, please send us any comments you might have.

Also, when you get a chance could you let us know what your application with the cable will be (professional musician, audiophile etc.), and where you first learned about the cable and what influenced your decision to purchase the K1000 cable.

Kind Regards,

James S Serdechny
stefanaudioart.com
post #28 of 156
Thread Starter 

Could my sub be improving the midrange?

Disconnected the sub. I'm going to try to live without it for about a week. Based on listening to a few cuts, I think removing the sub has slightly DEGRADED the mid-range. How could that be? Remember Vandersteen’s crossover rolls off lows at 80Hz, BEFORE the signal hits the amp. As such, K1000s / amp aren't being taxed to reproduce bass. I’ll need additional comparisons to validate -- but this is my first impression.

BTW: I already miss the deep stuff
post #29 of 156
Thread Starter 
I plan to drag my system -- including the sub -- to a head-fi meet in Nashville on the 27th. So far I am the ONLY person to hear this monster, so it will be interesting to see how others react.

Changed my order with Stephan Audio Arts to an 8-foot cable. Figured that's all I need for my current setup. And I can always add an extension in the future, if needed.

In a second exchange of e-mail with Ayre, Charles Hansen described balanced outputs as “equal and opposite”. I thought this to be concise and descriptive.

I can't tell you how much I miss the sub. With the sub I find myself judging the sound relative to my 2ch speakers. Without the sub... well, the sound IMO is somewhat incomplete.
post #30 of 156
The 27th of THIS month? Man. If I can get a caravan together, I might just have to crash the party.
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