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Okay...so who's made the GS-1000's an impulse buy? - Page 11

post #151 of 205
Will the GS1000 beat out the HP-2... perhaps it might better it in some ways, bass impact and amplified-like speed tend to be associated with the John Grado's. Will they sound better then the HP-2's? Honestly I dont think anything will ever have that ability.

The HP-1000 uses a discontinued and very expensive receiver driver, we will never see its use again in headphones. The strict attention to detail Joe spent with his headphones (ie- lining the aluminum chamber walls with a resonance control polymer) as well as the attention to driver damping with the use of allen key screws to mount the driver inside its chamber, sadly these attributes will always remain that of the HP-1000 series. It was Joe's last product, his last invention, his last baby (as some would say), he poured everything he had into it and if that ment next to no profit then so-be-it. He aimed at producing something that had never been made before in the audio world, an engineer with a discreet passion for his work is what he stood for.

When it comes to the current line of grado products, they are good, but there will always be one factor holding them back from achieving legendary status: Cost & Profit. John is a business man, albeit one with a very good ear, he still values his business with high priority- He has to in order to survive. When talking to Joe Grado, he had voiced similar concern regarding this personality. He thought that John just dosent pay close enough attention to the details of his products. The tiny little quirks and decisions that sit a product above all others. This lead to the discussion of balancing a budget and Joe agreed, the current grado company is more of a business than it is a laboratory. It needs to stay afloat, has employees, and a reputable image. It just so happens that when Joe ran the company it was relatively small, and could afford to splurge on development and material costs and bounce a few checks here and there.

I have some issues with the GS-1000's, mainly with their construction and design. While i love the new idea behind the 'bagel' bowls, finally a large sound-stage, i find myself disappointed with the overall headphone construction. I thought by now, John would realize the downsides of mounting drivers in glued wood. This GS-1000 dosent really present anything new in material construction. I expect this Gs-1000 will still carry most of the downfalls of its RS-1 cousin. There is simply no connection with glue and good sound. Maximum damping and minimal resonance is a rule of thumb for hi-end speaker construction. People will still find the PS-1 and HP-1000 series offering better high frequency response and ultimate neutrility.

While i consider my thoughts to be valid in a theoretical way, i also have not yet heard the GS-1000. I have listened to every grado that was ever made and i am basing my feelings on my experiences. I know some will dismiss all my facts based on not hearing this new medium, but physics will be physics, quality materials will always prevail.

I can predict this GS-1000 will hit with huge success initially. But as time goes on, it will take its place, and one will still crave a modern-day Joe Grado state of mind; Something with the detail and attention paid to engineering and material construction.

I can only wait to see what this GS-1000 truly sounds like. I just hope this dosent develop into another K701 lust.
post #152 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
It just so happens that when Joe ran the company it was relatively small, and could afford to splurge on development and material costs and bounce a few checks here and there.
Actually Grado Labs was one of the world's top phono cartridge manufacturers, and was several times its current size during its heyday. When vinyl collapsed, they moved into headphones, and started downsizing. As they built up their headphone market, they starting increasing in size, but have never gotten near the size they were at their peak. John had to be a smart businessman, as he inherited a business very near closing when sales of its major product collapsed due to the advent of the CD, and somehow managed to salvage it.
post #153 of 205
Didn't Zanth mention in his interview that John was actually the one who made the drivers for his uncle? He's like Van Gogh, he can reproduce reality but prefered something more artistic and enjoyable (at least to his ears and many others).
post #154 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeberg
LOL, I will probably end up doing the same thing! Although I've only ever spent a tenth of what people are dropping on the GS1000's, I am somewhat more looking forward to that slick 18-200 VR lens, but that's $700 that should go towards transportation, so even that will have to wait for some time...

And yeah, sometimes damn expensive hobbies suck. Sometimes
,
Abe
yeah, abe...i have that 18-200 lens on order. order yours now and you might get it by mid-summer
post #155 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdone
Didn't Zanth mention in his interview that John was actually the one who made the drivers for his uncle? He's like Van Gogh, he can reproduce reality but prefered something more artistic and enjoyable (at least to his ears and many others).

The HP-1000 drivers were not made in-house by grado, they were manufactured by PRIMO of Singapore. The other series drivers, for the SR line (SR100, SR200, SR300) not too sure about- may have been a lower PRIMO line. I do know that the current drivers are produced in-house (with the only posibility for outsourcing with the diaphram)

I dont believe Zanth said anything about John MAKING the drivers for Joe, he only helped put together the HP-1000 headphones with his uncle.
post #156 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
The HP-1000 drivers were not made in-house by grado, they were manufactured by PRIMO of Singapore. The other series drivers, for the SR line (SR100, SR200, SR300) not too sure about- may have been a lower PRIMO line. I do know that the current drivers are produced in-house (with the only posibility for outsourcing with the diaphram)

I dont believe Zanth said anything about John MAKING the drivers for Joe, he only helped put together the HP-1000 headphones with his uncle.
You're right. I doesn't say anything about the drivers but the rest of the build quailty is mentioned. Here's an excerpt:

What is also important is that John was working full-time at Grado during the development of the HP-1000’s. Having assembled each and every one, he is keenly aware of their build quality, the production costs and most importantly, their sound. Above all, it was during the production of these HP-1000’s that John took over the company.
post #157 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
People will still find the PS-1 and HP-1000 series offering better high frequency response and ultimate neutrility.
I find this statement confusing. PS1s use glue, and you couldn't possibly claim to be able to tell the difference between glue and screws anyways. Metal is also more resonant than wood or glue... Joe and John have very different philosophies on what something should sound like; that doesn't make Joe right and John wrong. The current John Grado Series are not studio monitoring headphones like the HP1000s, they are not built to be abused (for better or for use) by intense use and are designed to be fun rather than accurate. Yet when John did make a professional headphone you praise it. Sounds to me like you just dont care for the current Grado sound signature and prefer a nuetral sound to a colored one?

That being said I understand your dissapointment with Grado build quality but not with SQ.
post #158 of 205
Has anyone heard the GS-1000 balanced, or at least compared a well amplified unbalanced GS-1000 against a balanced RS-1?
post #159 of 205
You are mistaken Akathriel, the PS-1's use NO GLUE in the mounting of their driver in the aluminum air chamber. They use the same allen- head screw method as their predecessor, the HP-1000.

You are also incorrect in your interpretation of metal and sound. Metal has a higher resonance frequency than wood, which does not mean it sounds worse. Because of its rigidity and sound damping properties, it is considered IDEAL for use in all frequency spectrum applications. Actually anodized aluminum, depending on its thickness, is said to hava a resonance freq. well above 30khz, making it ideal for sound purposes (check out Dynaudio's Evidence MASTER).

"Will people be able to tell the difference between glue and screws?" You bet!! Check out Zanths review of the HP-2, vs. PS1, vs. RS-1. He makes discreet mention of this mounting technique and its benefit to driver damping. I also echo his opinions as i have heard the big 3 Grado's and have owned/own 2.

Also, dont confuse studio quality with being robust and or neutral. Those exact qualities are the most preferred in audiophiles' quests today, neutral response is one of the most common goals sought after.- i dont point fingers, i like my sounds sounding real too.


"Sounds to me like you just dont care for the current Grado sound signature and prefer a neutral sound to a colored one"-

I prefer a more neutral sound yes. If you like a colored sound, good for you, whatever floats your boat, im not hear to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. It just so happens that some in this thread are arguing the neutrality of the GS-1000 compared to the HP-2, that is where i chime in and let those remember the signature that is John Grado, he favors a surreal image rather than a true/more neutral representation- you even said so yourself.

Just sharing some knowledge and opinion.
post #160 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luco
Has anyone heard the GS-1000 balanced, or at least compared a well amplified unbalanced GS-1000 against a balanced RS-1?
Moon audio mentioned they will probably be offering balanced GS-1000 that are put together at Grado labs. It doesn't sound like it has been done quite yet. It doesn't sound like more than the first two production models are out in public yet. I'm sure that's about to change in a few days.
post #161 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
You are mistaken Akathriel, the PS-1's use NO GLUE in the mounting of their driver in the aluminum air chamber. They use the same allen- head screw method as their predecessor, the HP-1000.

You are also incorrect in your interpretation of metal and sound. Metal has a higher resonance frequency than wood, which does not mean it sounds worse. Because of its rigidity and sound damping properties, it is considered IDEAL for use in all frequency spectrum applications. Actually anodized aluminum, depending on its thickness, is said to hava a resonance freq. well above 30khz, making it ideal for sound purposes (check out Dynaudio's Evidence MASTER).

"Will people be able to tell the difference between glue and screws?" You bet!! Check out Zanths review of the HP-2, vs. PS1, vs. RS-1. He makes discreet mention of this mounting technique and its benefit to driver damping. I also echo his opinions as i have heard the big 3 Grado's and have owned/own 2.

Also, dont confuse studio quality with being robust and or neutral. Those exact qualities are the most preferred in audiophiles' quests today, neutral response is one of the most common goals sought after.- i dont point fingers, i like my sounds sounding real too.


"Sounds to me like you just dont care for the current Grado sound signature and prefer a neutral sound to a colored one"-

I prefer a more neutral sound yes. If you like a colored sound, good for you, whatever floats your boat, im not hear to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. It just so happens that some in this thread are arguing the neutrality of the GS-1000 compared to the HP-2, that is where i chime in and let those remember the signature that is John Grado, he favors a surreal image rather than a true/more neutral representation- you even said so yourself.

Just sharing some knowledge and opinion.
Maybe I am confused but if metal is more resonant isn't that the exact opposite of damping? If its isolated from the outer housing this wold make some sense but a metal screw will transfer more vibrations than glue (not necessarilly a bad thing.) Don't most speakers have wood housings? There are other advantages of wood over metal as well. Just as metal has advantages over wood. And there are larger differences between the big 3 other than screws vs glue, how do you necessarily know your preference is based on that discrepancy? Believe it or not, I actually hold similar sonic preferences to you but my point was that just because they aren't nuetral doesn't make John Grado's inferior

EDIT: You do appear to be correct about PS1s and screws my apologies.
post #162 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
....i also have not yet heard the GS-1000....
You really should hear it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
....People will still find the PS-1 and HP-1000 series offering better high frequency response and ultimate neutrility....
I've heard the PS-1. I own a Grado HP-1. I find the GS-1000's high frequency response to be better than both. As for an overall sense of neutrality, to my ears, the GS-1000 is definitely more neutral than the PS-1, and at least as neutral as the HP-1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydon
....I have listened to every grado that was ever made and i am basing my feelings on my experiences....
I don't recall having heard the Grado SR-40, but I have heard the rest of them, including the GS-1000 now.

I think you're overthinking it, man. Reserve your judgment, and don't think it through any more than you have, until you hear it.
post #163 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akathriel
Maybe I am confused but if metal is more resonant isn't that the exact opposite of damping?
Metal is not more resonant than wood... it has a higher resonant frequency. So high in some cases that it does not interfear with audio reproduction. Or at least that is how I understand it. Rhydon is talking about the actual frequency of the resonance and not it's amplitude.
post #164 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyvn
The MDR-R10 to be displaced by the GS1000? From what I hear, that's a tall order.
The GS1000 is good but IMO not that good.
post #165 of 205
LOL, I prefer my K340's to the R10's... Headphones are all about personal preference. Even though I do agree that the HE90 is the 'king of all headphones' after hearing it at the National, there are still things that I would improve in it. There are still some things that other headphones do better. Nothing is perfect.
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