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Buying The Sizzle??? (HE90 Takes the crown) - Page 2

post #16 of 87
I dunno, lots of people like Mustang, Lotus, maserati, Corvette but most would say a Ferrari is better in a poll. Is it better or is it just more appealing? Subjectiveness is, well, very subjective and doesn't bear close scrutiny.
post #17 of 87
No offense, but you mixed company names with car model names like a headphone noob mixes up detail with brightness.

And the Ferrari would most likely cost more than all the other things you listed.
post #18 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
No offense, but you mixed company names with car model names like a headphone noob mixes up detail with brightness.

And the Ferrari would most likely cost more than all the other things you listed.
...yet still not be constructed better than any of them!!
post #19 of 87
I think the HE90 is anything but sizzle, it has an amazing midrange, perhaps the best. However if one goes around thinking they are some truely superior, holy-grail, etc. etc., then I would consider that sizzle.
post #20 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpelg
Now you can go to a meet, and have four or five HE90's!!! Some members own more than one pair! That was but a pipedream only a few years ago.
[...]
Secondly, I also think the HE90's scale up with better equipment, beyond even what the O2's are capable. Only a few years ago, a top source around here might have been a Meridian 588, or maybe a Cary 306/200. Now those honors include names like Meitner, etc.
[...]
I had heard the HE90's pitted against the O2's in the past. Always using a Gilmore e-stat amp (KGSS or Blue Hawaii). My usual opin was that both headphones were stellar, but the HE90 was a bit light in bass compared the top-of-the-line Stax offering. That is, until I finally heard the Orpheus system all together.
There you go. Jpelg has identified three critical points that would more than account for a general change in opinion, with absolutely no marketing involved. (as if that could ever happen in audio. The availability of the headphone, the sources used, and the amplification involved can all seriously influence popular opinion.

Back when nobody had heard the HE90s, they were just as revered. See the HeadWize archives for more details.
post #21 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
No offense, but you mixed company names with car model names like a headphone noob mixes up detail with brightness.

And the Ferrari would most likely cost more than all the other things you listed.
Intentional, as I was intending sporty, If I had put Ford and Chevy it would have looked like a joke. Yes, the Ferrari would have cost more than all the others, like the Orpheus would if compared to an O2, RS-1, HD650 and K1000
post #22 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken36
My recent discussion, with a long time member and very respected head-fier, indicated that 5 years ago, when this forum was in its infancy, electrostatic sentiment was the flip version of what it is today. At that time, according to my confidant, the Omega 2 would have won a similar poll handily by popular acclaim.
Not to distrust such reference, but isn't that just an opinion? This is the first time I hear that some time ago the Omega 2 was regarded as supposedly clearly superior to the Orpheus. There might have been such an generalized opinion, but honestly it is the very first time I ever hear it.

One other comment I disagree with, the HE90 not having great synergy with Sennheisers own Orpheus amp. I have heard the HE90's both with that amp (Headroom's World of Headphones Tour, New Orleans, source was a Meridian), and also at Alex's place briefly from what I believe was a Blue Hawai, source was a Accuphase. At Alex place it was a very quiet environment, and in my opinion the sound was not great at all, there was a clear treble roll off. Whether it was the tubes in use no idea. But there wasn't great synergy there in my opinion. It didn't sound at all as beautiful as the Orpheus I heard in New Orleans using the Orpheus amp. In other words, it seems this is another case in which YMMV.
post #23 of 87
(I'd take a Z06 Corvette At $65k it can hold it's own against any of those cars mentioned)
post #24 of 87
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much head-fiers. I meant for this thread to be provocative and it certainly stirred some very passionate and learned information. Now I can proceed to enjoy what I have and save my pennies.
post #25 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken36
Thank you very much head-fiers. I meant for this thread to be provocative and it certainly stirred some very passionate and learned information. Now I can proceed to enjoy what I have and save my pennies.
So it was a consolation thread!

If it were me, I'd stick with OIIs, just not a hassle to get and you can get them brand new, and not for extravagant prices. Now that's hard to beat.
post #26 of 87
I prefered the Omegas. It just sounded bigger, and is not as sensitive to the source which may be good or bad.
post #27 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpelg
...The interesting thing to me is that with all of the supposed subjectiveness of audio, including headphone-dom, there seem to be far fewer deviations in opinion of these top-of-the-line models, such as the HE90's, than with lower-end models. Why is this so? ...
I've said that before, mostly because HE90 is always paired with high-end amp costing no less than $4,000.
Try it with HEV70 and that would be another story.
post #28 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergill
I've said that before, mostly because HE90 is always paired with high-end amp costing no less than $4,000.
Try it with HEV70 and that would be another story.

As I've said before, nearly all of the 'Orpheus Sound' is in the headphones, not in the amp.
post #29 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggy
Maybe another factor is the people. Maybe the Germans are better at designing stats but not at getting a long term sales strategy in place to make money. Who knows. What I do know is that it is somewhat unfair to compare the two given their target goals and retail prices. Stax cannot easily devote the tons of cash and resources necessary to go all out on a signature model as these invariably lose money and are never designed to be more than an exercise in excellence regardless of cost. (like the Qualia series). Stax went bankrupt once and are a small-scale manufacturer. If they had the funding and people I'm sure thy could make something that was at least the equal of the orphy and maybe better.
Actually, they did that with the Omega SR-1 (and they went bankrupt, BTW). They were several magazines at the time that preferred the Omega to the Orpheus (Stereophile and The Absolute Sound among then).

And then I saw in Headwize people preferring the Omega II to the Omega I.

I'm not saying that the Omega is better. Or worse. But I can't but feel a bit skeptical about this. Once certain level of performance is reached, this hobby starts to be about tastes and personal preferences.

One could expect something like 60%/40%, or 70%/30%. Hell, even 80%/20%. But 95/99 of 100 preferring the Orpheus over the OmegaII? I wonder how many people think it is better because it has to be better.

I myself I'm guilty of this. I got a pair of R10s around a week ago (new production one, 2003). I'm trying HARD to like them, because they have to be good. I can almost see an aura surrounding them. I'm not listening to anything else in order to get used to the sound. Call it mental burn-in.

I almost fooled myself thinking that if they are not the best, they are just there. But the truth is that coming back to my setups, the K1000 from the V20 is at least two Tiers better (IMHO, for my tastes). And I even prefer the L3000/PS-1 for most of the music.

One could blame to my dynamic amps but the EMP AE and DHA3000, without being an SDS, should be decent enough in order to get an idea of what the R10s are capable of.

I'm not saying the R10s are crap. I might ending preferring them in the long run, who knows? I'll give them a chance. But one thing is clear. Right now, I prefer the V20-K1000 (by far, far, far) or the L3000, or the PS1. And I would say that even the Baby Orpheus by memory (I don't have it at home right now).

But the important thing is that (even knowing deep inside that I prefer my actual phones) I realized I was trying to fooling myself and trying HARD to like the R10s more than my remaining phones. Because they have to be better. Everyone say they are Tier 1. They must be. They must be. Hey! I'm starting to like them. They must be. They must be.

Please don't get me wrong. I might end liking them more that anything else. All I'm saying is that I found myself trying REALLY HARD to like the R10s just because I should.

I wonder if some people does the same with the Orpheus. And again, I'm not saying they are not the best. I'm just saying that a 95/99% of 100 is strange when we reach this level of performance and when personal preferences start to kick in.

Cheers
post #30 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Actually, they did that with the Omega SR-1 (and they went bankrupt, BTW). They were several magazines at the time that preferred the Omega to the Orpheus (Stereophile and The Absolute Sound among then).

And then I saw in Headwize people preferring the Omega II to the Omega I.

I'm not saying that the Omega is better. Or worse. But I can't but feel a bit skeptical about this. Once certain level of performance is reached, this hobby starts to be about tastes and personal preferences.

One could expect something like 60%/40%, or 70%/30%. Hell, even 80%/20%. But 95/99 of 100 preferring the Orpheus over the OmegaII? I wonder how many people think it is better because it has to be better.

I myself I'm guilty of this. I got a pair of R10s around a week ago (new production one, 2003). I'm trying HARD to like them, because they have to be good. I can almost see an aura surrounding them. I'm not listening to anything else in order to get used to the sound. Call it mental burn-in.

I almost fooled myself thinking that if they are not the best, they are just there. But the truth is that coming back to my setups, the K1000 from the V20 is at least two Tiers better (IMHO, for my tastes). And I even prefer the L3000/PS-1 for most of the music.

One could blame to my dynamic amps but the EMP AE and DHA3000, without being an SDS, should be decent enough in order to get an idea of what the R10s are capable of.

I'm not saying the R10s are crap. I might ending preferring them in the long run, who knows? I'll give them a chance. But one thing is clear. Right now, I prefer the V20-K1000 (by far, far, far) or the L3000, or the PS1. And I would say that even the Baby Orpheus by memory (I don't have it at home right now).

But the important thing is that (even knowing deep inside that I prefer my actual phones) I realized I was trying to fooling myself and trying HARD to like the R10s more than my remaining phones. Because they have to be better. Everyone say they are Tier 1. They must be. They must be. Hey! I'm starting to like them. They must be. They must be.

Please don't get me wrong. I might end liking them more that anything else. All I'm saying is that I found myself trying REALLY HARD to like the R10s just because I should.

I wonder if some people does the same with the Orpheus. And again, I'm not saying they are not the best. I'm just saying that a 95/99% of 100 is strange when we reach this level of performance and when personal preferences start to kick in.

Cheers
In all honesty, I feel the same way as you do. I only really consider headphones in a certain price range now so I can feel that they're definitely better. I mean, headphones in the price range of $200-$400 are very good, so when doing an upgrade, assuming I already have $250 phones, I'm not going to want to go to $400 phones, something that is comparable. Instead, I want to jump to the $1000 range, where at this point, you definitely know it's a step up in terms of technical performance, not just a possible sidestep. It just has to be technically better. That's not saying that one can't prefer lower priced headphones because of its sound signature, but those lower priced heapdhones would likely not be technically better. I've been thinking long and hard about the W5000 vs. L3000 comparison. I mean, once you've hit the $900 point, diminishing returns will likely hit you fast, which means that the next step up would not be $1200 or $1500, maybe $3500.

I do appreciate my cans very much, but as I mentioned before, I think the difficulty in acquiring headphones, its price, and its "untouchable/elite" status certainly boosts a can's profile a lot, imo.
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