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6922 (E88CC)-Tubes, need advice! - Page 4

post #46 of 65
I placed an order with www.thetubestore.com on two matched russian 6H23-EB. I installed them on my PinkFloyd modified Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 and I could not be happier. The sound is tighter, punchier, and much more detailed.
post #47 of 65
Thread Starter 
Just opened my Cayin-Player to change the tubes, and whoah! - big surprise!

There aren`t the expected chinese tubes in it, but...
Russian Electro-Harmonix (the normal, without gold pins) !

My oh my, should`ve opened that thing earlier, I`m always to lazy!

Anyway, replaced them by the JJs (will give them a bit of burn-in time before judging).

Now since the EHs are described as being rather good, I don`t expect to much of a difference.
Like I said earlier, I found those EHs being to bass-heavy, and even worse, microphonic.

So if that are the tubes that Rudi delivers his amps with, I don`t see me spending much time with them. Siemens and Amperex here we go.

Besides:
As for being a "wack job" for spending $100 and more for a pair of tubes, I beg to differ. Just a question of priorities, I`d say.
Other people spend two or three times the money for headphone-cables and stuff like that, and I certainly have my personal opinions when it comes to that.
Only thing I`d care about would be a trust-worthy source.
Bying expensive vintage tubes via ebay doesn`t sound like a very smart thing to me, but others might have different experiences.
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonid05
Just opened my Cayin-Player to change the tubes, and whoah! - big surprise!

There aren`t the expected chinese tubes in it, but...
Russian Electro-Harmonix (the normal, without gold pins) !

My oh my, should`ve opened that thing earlier, I`m always to lazy!

Anyway, replaced them by the JJs (will give them a bit of burn-in time before judging).

Now since the EHs are described as being rather good, I don`t expect to much of a difference.
Like I said earlier, I found those EHs being to bass-heavy, and even worse, microphonic.

So if that are the tubes that Rudi delivers his amps with, I don`t see me spending much time with them. Siemens and Amperex here we go.

Besides:
As for being a "wack job" for spending $100 and more for a pair of tubes, I beg to differ. Just a question of priorities, I`d say.
Other people spend two or three times the money for headphone-cables and stuff like that, and I certainly have my personal opinions when it comes to that.
Only thing I`d care about would be a trust-worthy source.
Bying expensive vintage tubes via ebay doesn`t sound like a very smart thing to me, but others might have different experiences.

If nothing else the JJ tubes will certainly sound different when compared to the Electro Harmonix 6922s, in my experience they're at pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum sound-wise.

What kind of Amperex did you end up ordering?
post #49 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmculbreth
If nothing else the JJ tubes will certainly sound different when compared to the Electro Harmonix 6922s, in my experience they're at pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum sound-wise.

What kind of Amperex did you end up ordering?
I`d be interested to read more about your experiences with EH and JJ (just as a comparison). So far the JJs sound good, but that`s nothing but a first impression, not worth to talk about.

The Amperex I ordered are the ones Patu already mentioned:
White label 6DJ8, Holland made. They`re about $70 without shipment.
post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonid05
The Amperex I ordered are the ones Patu already mentioned:
White label 6DJ8, Holland made. They`re about $70 without shipment.
So you did order them already. Well I guess it's ok, I'm very impatient myself also.

I didn't experience any microphonics with my EH's when I quickly tried them. I should try them again soon though.

You should've ordered those orange globe ones. I'm interested in how they sound.
post #51 of 65
Thread Starter 
Well, unfortunately one of the JJs is dead.

Was wondering about the thin sound, until I realized that the left speaker is silent. Switched the tubes, now the right speaker silent (both tubes glowing though).

No idea what that`s all about, but it certainly was the moment the Philips-tubes had been waiting for!
Both are in now, running properly, and so far nice sound, no microphonics.
Btw., didn`t know that these Philips-tubes are US-made.


Besides, just in case somebody might be wondering what kind of CD-Player I`m talking about all the time, here`s a nice review incl. pics:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hit/cd22.html
Mine is the successor, the Cayin CDT-23, having an improved DAC (24/192), but otherwise it should be identical.
Great player, highly recommended!



@ Patu:
Yes, impatience might play a role, plus I find that all highly interesting now.
In a couple of weeks I might be to lazy to care about.
Another plus: I`m soo curious about the vintage Siemens...
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonid05
Besides:
As for being a "wack job" for spending $100 and more for a pair of tubes, I beg to differ. Just a question of priorities, I`d say.
Other people spend two or three times the money for headphone-cables and stuff like that, and I certainly have my personal opinions when it comes to that.
Only thing I`d care about would be a trust-worthy source.
Bying expensive vintage tubes via ebay doesn`t sound like a very smart thing to me, but others might have different experiences.
Well its all about personal choice and disposable income, but the cost of a $100 tube to me equates to $10 on another tube and $90 on LP's (perhaps CD's). I would sacrifice a bit of sound quality for more music and as I don't buy expensive tubes, I'll never know what I'm missing
I should point out that I do have many NOS tubes dating from the 60's, from many of the sought after manufacturers but won't and haven't paid more than $10 for them (small signal tubes that is). The last batch of Sovtek ECC88's I bought cost under $2 each delivered.
post #53 of 65
Here is some more reading for you:

http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/6dj8sound.html

Also, the A-frames that I have are more warmer sounding then the white labeled Amperex I have. I also prefer the white labeled Amperex tubes over the Orange labeled but the Orange labeled are no slouch either. I have a few pair of Orange A-frame PQ Amperexes that sound wonderful and certainly better then the white labeled bugleboys.

I'd be interested in hearing someones impressions of the Ei-Elite and how they compare to the EH's.
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonid05
I`d be interested to read more about your experiences with EH and JJ (just as a comparison). So far the JJs sound good, but that`s nothing but a first impression, not worth to talk about.

The Amperex I ordered are the ones Patu already mentioned:
White label 6DJ8, Holland made. They`re about $70 without shipment.
To be honest I didn't really care for the JJ tubes, I sounded unnaturally smooth and they sapped the dynamics right out of my system. I thought they sounded OK with female vocal music but overall I thought they were by far the worst 6922 type I had ever heard. On the other hand I actually thought the Electro Harmonix 6922 sounded pretty decent, they didn't have a lot of warmth but I thought they sounded clean and polite. It's been awhile since I've used them but from memory they didn't really excell in any particular area but they didn't really have a glaring weakness either.

I don't have any experience with the white label Amperex tubes but if they sound anything like the Bugle Boy or Orange Globes I've used they should be a big upgrade over anything you have now.
post #55 of 65
IME, 6DJ8-type tubes from the same manufacturer all possess a common "house" sound, even if the design is significantly different (e.g. frame style, getter construction, etc.). So the way I'd approach tube rolling is first finding the manufacturer you prefer, then move vertically within that manufacturer's line to find the perfect tube for you. Siemens work best for me in one system, Amperex in another. I haven't found any instance where Telefunkens were preferred; I imagine they would sound great in inherently "fat" sounding gear. I can not stand Mullard 6DJ8-type tubes

I'm a heathen. I really can't hear much of a difference between a $500+/pr Amperex pinch waist and its non-pinch waist counterpart. I've only tried three pairs though (and I only have one pair still with me), so sampling size could be a factor. Still, I tend to believe that the pinch-waist rarity has a psychological influence on how people perceive its sound
post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer5150
I heard electro haarmonix were just rebadged Sovteks?
Any truth to that?

thanks!!!
Garrett
No - not true.

Electro Harmonix Gold are a redesign - not the same as the Sovtek.

Somewhere I read that the EH Gold was based on the Telefunken design - anybody know about this - whether it is true?

I find that the EH Gold tends toward a rich musical tone body but with soft tone edge definition - tone images are blurred at their edges. Since I like a sharp 3-D image in empty space, I am careful what I use with the EH Gold.

I like a EH Gold as input with Raytheon VT231 as output (all as 6SN7 types) in my Bada PH12 - best of tone body fullness and texture with tone edge definition. All EH Golds are too euphonic for me.
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by drarthurwells
Somewhere I read that the EH Gold was based on the Telefunken design - anybody know about this - whether it is true?
Judging by the interior construction (from plates to getter to micas) of the TFK ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, and CCa I have here, the EH Gold is not remotely close to a copy of the Telefunken design.

Telefunken 6DJ8-type tubes are not known for warmth or richness. They are known to be detailed, analytical, and fast.
post #58 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmculbreth
To be honest I didn't really care for the JJ tubes, I sounded unnaturally smooth and they sapped the dynamics right out of my system. I thought they sounded OK with female vocal music but overall I thought they were by far the worst 6922 type I had ever heard. On the other hand I actually thought the Electro Harmonix 6922 sounded pretty decent, they didn't have a lot of warmth but I thought they sounded clean and polite. It's been awhile since I've used them but from memory they didn't really excell in any particular area but they didn't really have a glaring weakness either.
Can`t tell about the JJs too, since one tube of the pair didn`t work.
Maybe I make them EHs worse than they really are, might be bad luck that my pair became microphonic. Their sound certainly had "musicality" (=fun), if you get the drill. A bit to much bass, for my system.
Probably the gold Version might be worth a try.

Quote:
I don't have any experience with the white label Amperex tubes but if they sound anything like the Bugle Boy or Orange Globes I've used they should be a big upgrade over anything you have now.
Those Amperex white label are described as being identical with the Bugle-Boy-Logo-type.


As for the Philips-JAN-6922-tubes, I have them running since yesterday, and after around twelve hours running there`s no microphonic so far.
I find them extremely detailed, in a sometimes astonishing amount. They certainly transport everything the DAC offers them, almost "analytical".
They sound rather bright, rather transistor-like, if not "digital" (if you get the drill).
I certainly can imagine how these tubes are annoying in a phono-stage.
Everything is "there", including the bass, but I wouldn`t call them "fun" to listen to. They lack of musicality.
I guess will48 nailed it by calling them "anaemic".
I`ll wait and see if they improve a bit more, but so far I don`t see them running in my player for to long.

@ drarthurwells:
Received your PM, sorry, forgot to reply.
Don`t need tubes right now, there are interesting ones on their way.
Thanks for the offer!
post #59 of 65
@drarthurwells

please, please, please, stop telling fairy tales about things you don't have a clue! Please, I can't take it any longer.

Both 6922EH and 6922EH Gold are of an exact the same (absolutely identical) internal design, both come from the exact the same Woskhod factory in Russia and both are identical in the internal structure to the millitary grade old Soviet 6N23P-EV (that's the correct spelling of how they are called in Russian). Hence they are so low-noise tubes and are never microphonic. The difference between 6922EH and 6922 EH Gold are gold pins. There is no = zerro difference in sound between them, I've compared them a lot with very decent gear, believe me.

So, unless you have money to burn - stay with 6922EH

-Alex
post #60 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-LeXx
@drarthurwells

please, please, please, stop telling fairy tales about things you don't have a clue! Please, I can't take it any longer.

Both 6922EH and 6922EH Gold are of an exact the same (absolutely identical) internal design, both come from the exact the same Woskhod factory in Russia and both are identical in the internal structure to the millitary grade old Soviet 6N23P-EV (that's the correct spelling of how they are called in Russian). Hence they are so low-noise tubes and are never microphonic. The difference between 6922EH and 6922 EH Gold are gold pins. There is no = zerro difference in sound between them, I've compared them a lot with very decent gear, believe me.

So, unless you have money to burn - stay with 6922EH

-Alex
Them being microphonic was the exact and almost only reason for me to look for alternatives (and starting this thread).
And I noticed them being microphonic before even knowing that the stock tubes are EHs.
But you knew that already, since you payed attention to this thread, right?
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