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AKG K701 vs. Sony SA5000 - first impressions - Page 2

post #16 of 166
2/23/06 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkpowder
K701 sounds good to me! Does the K701 have as wide a soundstage as the HD650?
Yes wider, and deeper.
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post #17 of 166
2/23/06 at 11:16am
In my opinion HD650 have better soundstaging, not necessarily wider but more homogeneous across the soundstage, extreme Left to extreme Right. When a source sound is hard panned Left or Right you have a total reproduction of the original energy with HD650 while i found the sound slightly muted with K701. The AKG gave me a sensation of compressed soundstage. More SPL in the middle than in Left or Right of the soundstage. I think because of the less open earcups design respect to the HD650, hence more reflections toward the ears resulting also in a slightly forward reproduction, especially with the midrange and low highs.
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post #18 of 166
2/23/06 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergill
The AKG gave me a sensation of compressed soundstage. More SPL in the middle than in Left or Right of the soundstage.
That's odd, because I was going to say the same thing about the 650, it's more compressed, especially with respect to front to back. Acoustical instruments seem skewed toward the back, they are more bunched up toward the back. This was mainly noticeable with large ensemble pieces.
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post #19 of 166
2/23/06 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergill
The AKG gave me a sensation of compressed soundstage.
Glad to know I'm not alone, I had the same impression. That's why I started messing with foam modding.
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post #20 of 166
2/23/06 at 12:23pm
Darn. So many mixed views! I guess I will only know from actually trying them myself...
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post #21 of 166
2/23/06 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkpowder
Darn. So many mixed views! I guess I will only know from actually trying them myself...
True! Actually I've found a new appreciation for the HD 650 as of lately -- but still think the K 701 is the better headphone overall. However, I guess it strongly depends on the system and the personal preference. While I slightly prefer the HD 650's tonal balance, the K 701 simply has the higher definition and the clearly more impressive and natural soundstage (in my system and to my ears), apart from the superior bass extension.
.
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post #22 of 166
2/23/06 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyline889
Well, most of the time they were way too bright for me, since I am used to Sennheisers, almost to the point where I couldn't bear to listen to them so that's my definition of harsh, idk maybe fatiguing would be the better term for it?
The SA5000 is bright with a slight 10KHz emphasis. Listening fatigue with digital program material treble hardness can be a problem, particularly in those with excellent high frequency hearing ability.

This is less so with the K701, and even lesser to a greater extent with the HD650 (which has a slight dip at around 10KHz). No doubt many will prefer the HD650 for this reason.

On the other hand, the brightness of the SA5000 can be a definite plus for many people, when the program material is clean and the treble sparkles with silky sheen.
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post #23 of 166
2/23/06 at 2:20pm
Lets say that on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Dull or very warm and 10 being hyper etched or Bright

HD-650 = 1
K701 = 5 (Once Broken in)(6 or 7 when new)
SA5000 = 9 (7 to 8 when re-cabled with great wire)
Qualia 010 = 10

The 701’s when new do exhibit a slight high frequency edginess or distortion that is very similar to the SA5000’s slight high frequency harshness. Once the 701’s are broken in this totally disappears. The good news is that re-cabling the SA5000’s also eliminated this property.

The broken in 701’s clearly bested the stock SA5000’s. The 701’s are a little warmer than the SA5000’s but in no way could they be considered as warm or un-involving as the HD650’s.

The SA5000’s once re-cabled are taken to a new level. The jury is out on whether or not they best the 701’s. In any case the 701’s are a 5 (1-10) and the re-cabled 5000’s are a 7 (tonally).
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post #24 of 166
2/23/06 at 3:10pm
Yikes,

Your impressions of the recabled SA5K intrigue me. I've been considering it for the sonic advantages, and also just because the cable is ridiculously long. What cables, specifically, have you heard? And does the recable bring out more bass and mids, or just tame the highs?
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post #25 of 166
2/23/06 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yikes
Lets say that on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Dull or very warm and 10 being hyper etched or Bright

HD-650 = 1
K701 = 5 (Once Broken in)(6 or 7 when new)
SA5000 = 9 (7 to 8 when re-cabled with great wire)
Qualia 010 = 10

The 701’s when new do exhibit a slight high frequency edginess or distortion that is very similar to the SA5000’s slight high frequency harshness. Once the 701’s are broken in this totally disappears. The good news is that re-cabling the SA5000’s also eliminated this property.
I scaled these on the other thread some time ago but my feelings at the moment goes like this:

650: 2
K701: 6
SA5000: 6.5
RS-1 (bowls): 8.5
RS-1 (flats): 5
SR325i (bowls): 10

I haven't heard Qualia but I added Grado's top of the line RS-1 and the brightest headphones I've heard SR325i.

I'm confused that people keep talking about SA5000 being extremely bright and having harshness in highs. I've never experienced any fatigue or harshness with SA5000. Analytical, detailed and slightly cold are right words to describe SA5000 but bright... hmm I wouldn't say that. RS-1 was _clearly_ brighter with bowls. I consider K701 and SA5000 nearest thing to neutral among the headphones I've heard to date.

On my vote for K701 I didn't notice the sibilance which it had on my system. That sibilance made the most highest sound way too sharp and edgy and I wasn't able to listen to some of the songs because of that. But please don't go with this sibilance thing. It was thorougly dealt with in another thread considering K701.

EDIT: This was my 1000. post. Hoorraayy!
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post #26 of 166
2/23/06 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patu
This was my 1000. post. Hoorraayy!
Congrats!
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post #27 of 166
2/23/06 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patu
I scaled these on the other thread some time ago but my feelings at the moment goes like this:

650: 2
K701: 6
SA5000: 6.5
RS-1 (bowls): 8.5
RS-1 (flats): 5
SR325i (bowls): 10
I'd be curious where you'd put the DT880 in that list
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post #28 of 166
2/23/06 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdriver
I'd be curious where you'd put the DT880 in that list
That would be hard because I haven't heard it with my current setup. I had Corda HA1 MkII as amp and Nordost Solar Wind as interconnects. But based on my vague images of its sound I'd say 6-7 on that scale. Don't take this too seriously.
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post #29 of 166
2/23/06 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
Doc, sounds like you're hearing about the same effect from the K701's I got out of hearing them at a meet. Appearences aside, I'd take them over the HD650's, but they still don't do what I like the SA5000 for.

Originally Posted by warpdriver:
Hold on. You are using harsh and bright in the same way. Brightness has to do with excess treble energy whereas harshness has to do with distortion.

The 701's are lively in the treble, more so than than the 650's, but they are not harsh at all.

Iron_Dreamer: Yeah, the HD650's, K701's and SA5000's are not harsh in an of themselves, though they could be if the electronics they are used with are. Of course the K701 is brighter than the HD650, and the SA5000 brighter than the K701, so of course such harshness becomes easier to hear, since the frequencies it is located in are more prominent.
Couldn't agree more with your brightness rating and comments on harshness. After listening to the K701 for a time, then putting on the SA5000, the brighter sound is most evident.

Also, I still love the SA5000 for its tone edge resolution, tone image encapsulation in space, and the bite and impact of its transient attacks. Can't beat this with any other dynamic headphone except the Qualia 010.

At this point the K701 has a more pleasing sound while the SA5000 has a more realistic sound (reality is not always pleasing except to those who embrace, rather than reject, reality).

I understand those who say the SA5000 is better and understand those who prefer the K701.
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post #30 of 166
2/23/06 at 6:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yikes
The 701’s when new do exhibit a slight high frequency edginess or distortion that is very similar to the SA5000’s slight high frequency harshness. Once the 701’s are broken in this totally disappears. The good news is that re-cabling the SA5000’s also eliminated this property.

The broken in 701’s clearly bested the stock SA5000’s. The 701’s are a little warmer than the SA5000’s but in no way could they be considered as warm or un-involving as the HD650’s.

The SA5000’s once re-cabled are taken to a new level.

Art: What cable will improve the SA5000? I can't think of anything better for the SA5000 than pure (as pure as possible) copper as is used, but could see reducing the cable length to improve the sound.

I would like to recable if it helps any.
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