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K1000 vs R10 ... - Page 6

post #76 of 198
2/23/06 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Many times we have spoken about quality and quantiti of bass, this is fondamental to understand each others in this regard.

Good... the Qualia, K 1000, 701 and others do not have exagerated quantiti of bass, but the right proportion (IMO) and the lowest frequences.

L3000, R10, and HD 650, and others have (IMO) a over quantiti of bass that sometimes, during some recordings, dirty the sound message.

To a first listening impression all the can like the second category (L3000...) give the impression to have more and better bass... but this is not true.

The "best" clean and precise bass I have heard come form Qualia and K 1000.

Best!
Nicola
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post #77 of 198
2/23/06 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor
...The biggest drawback to the K1K's is the BASS department. I have not heard any K1K setup that really shines in bass (I even heard the K1K's connected to a Singlepower Supra). Its there, its super tight, but its not prominent or a first-class citizen in the piece. I'm using the Super T-Amp and Apogee MiniDAC (I really need two MiniDACs at this point but that's another story) so perhaps a higher end amp like an EAR or high-SS amp could correct this. But I suspect not. I don't forsee the AKG K1000's really delivering the bass punch that my Q's or 5K's can deliver.

I'll have my K1000 system at the Jersey meet this weekend for you to check out. I think the quality in the bass department is pretty good.
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post #78 of 198
2/23/06 at 11:35am
Summers here, in Florida, are very hot and muggy, and during this time it's tough to wear the R10 for long periods. That's the only time that I prefer the K1000 over the R10, and this is actually the only reason that I haven't sold the K1000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood
But as I've stated in a review, the two headphones are rather seasonal for me. In hot weather, I cannot stand to wear the R10's without heavy air conditioning for long periods. But in winter time, I can practically wear my R10's forever. The K1000's are perfect for hot weather, and are fine for colder weather too, but the metal screens do get pretty cold sometimes.
And the K1000's can hurt the top of my ears if I wear them for more than 4 hours straight. -Ed
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post #79 of 198
2/23/06 at 12:15pm
Quote:
...K1000 need a powerful amp to shine on bass...
(This is not a citicism on you, Andrea...)

...but I think a few things need to be clarified. For a speaker amp -- which is the norm with the K 1000 -- the Leben isn't really a «powerful amp», with its 2x 32 watt. There are many much more powerful amps around which have been tried with the K 1000, among them my own BEL 1001 which easily triples the Leben's output power. I'm sure it's not about power, but (sonic!) synergy. The three amps I tried it with showed about the same sonic balance, although each with its distinct characteristic also noticeable through «normal» headphones.

So I think the K 1000 does have critical sonic properties which need to be compensated for -- in the form of equalizing or amp matching. I'm sure it wouldn't sound good on a perfectly neutral amp, no matter how «powerful».

That said, it certainly has a high level of «technical» capacity in many aspects and hence might be worth the effort for those who have the patience for the search for a matching amp and the necessary funds. The others may want to look for a good equalizer, which may be the technically more logical path with even higher (sonic) potential -- apart from the additional electronics in the signal path (save you have the ideal configuration for a digital equalizer).

BTW, I really liked its bass characteristic, but missed the low bass.
.
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post #80 of 198
2/23/06 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canman
I'll have my K1000 system at the Jersey meet this weekend for you to check out. I think the quality in the bass department is pretty good.
Dude, I already have shotgun on the 701's right? Can I call double shotgun? Thanks Canman, I give it a listen. I still think though the K1000's will be lacking a little in bass.

Oh btw guys, I totally agree the Super-T->AKG K1000 is a little too tinny or metalic at times and I can definitely understand the impetus to go valve.

Andrew: Nice pics and great meet! Don't worry after this Sunday, I will have some good pics of my own!
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post #81 of 198
2/23/06 at 3:36pm
So the real question is, when are you going to have a crazy mega $$$$ Rudistor amp just for your K1000, Nik?

I'd like to see what that monster with lots of shiny copper bits would look like.

-Ed
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post #82 of 198
2/23/06 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
Ed,

I do not find the R10 more detailed than the K1000, and I do not find the K 1000 more speaker like than the R10. If i think to BIG speakers, the R10 give a better example. I find the K 1000 more in a life like sound: positioning instruments and soundstage give to me this impression. When I listen to the R10 I can hear the SOUND of that instrument (for example the double bass), when I listen with the K 1000 I can hear THE instrument, not only the sound of... just my two cents...

Agree about the SAC amp...

Best!
Nicola

I've sat down and listened to the K1000's with a dead quiet room at 4 in the morning a lot. And compared them to my R10's. I've done this for quite some time now.

And the K1000's are detailed, but sorry, there are some things that I can hear on the R10's and not the K1000's. Which tells me the R10's are more detailed than the K1000's.

Soundstage, I guess is alot more personal preference.

-Ed
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post #83 of 198
2/23/06 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood
So the real question is, when are you going to have a crazy mega $$$$ Rudistor amp just for your K1000, Nik?

I'd like to see what that monster with lots of shiny copper bits would look like.

-Ed
No any other amp for the next ten years...

Best!
Nicola
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post #84 of 198
2/23/06 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood
I've sat down and listened to the K1000's with a dead quiet room at 4 in the morning a lot. And compared them to my R10's. I've done this for quite some time now.

And the K1000's are detailed, but sorry, there are some things that I can hear on the R10's and not the K1000's. Which tells me the R10's are more detailed than the K1000's.

Soundstage, I guess is alot more personal preference.

-Ed
Yes, Ed, you are right, I also find detalis that I discover with the R10, but other that I discover with the K 1000... this do not help to declare which one is more detailed... abosolutely... hard to know...

But... now (time help a lot...), I'm doing a very interesting experience.... normaly people think that the K 1000 is the most speaker like sound, just for the construction they have, very particular... well, after hours with the K 1000 on my head, I'm starting to think that I was listen to a pair of speakers, yes... but still little speakers as minimonitor.

The R10 give another impression after many hours with them on the head... the speakers are BIG speakers, like Avalon or something like that... and this is one point up for the wooden Sony.

So, war R10/K1000 not ended yet...

Best!
Nicola
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post #85 of 198
2/23/06 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
(This is not a citicism on you, Andrea...)

...but I think a few things need to be clarified. For a speaker amp -- which is the norm with the K 1000 -- the Leben isn't really a «powerful amp», with its 2x 32 watt. There are many much more powerful amps around which have been tried with the K 1000, among them my own BEL 1001 which easily triples the Leben's output power. I'm sure it's not about power, but (sonic!) synergy. The three amps I tried it with showed about the same sonic balance, although each with its distinct characteristic also noticeable through «normal» headphones.

So I think the K 1000 does have critical sonic properties which need to be compensated for -- in the form of equalizing or amp matching. I'm sure it wouldn't sound good on a perfectly neutral amp, no matter how «powerful».

That said, it certainly has a high level of «technical» capacity in many aspects and hence might be worth the effort for those who have the patience for the search for a matching amp and the necessary funds. The others may want to look for a good equalizer, which may be the technically more logical path with even higher (sonic) potential -- apart from the additional electronics in the signal path (save you have the ideal configuration for a digital equalizer).

BTW, I really liked its bass characteristic, but missed the low bass.
.

You are right, but power must be not less than 7-10 watts, I think.

I have noticed a big improvment in the K 1000 sound just doing the tuberolling, the can is very sensitive to any littlest variation...

K 1000 need BIG tube, this is my opinion... and warm tubes as RCA or Mullard.

Best!
Nicola
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post #86 of 198
2/23/06 at 4:10pm
I agree 100% with these observations by Ed regarding hearing some things with the R10 that can't be heard with the K1000. The R10 is definitely a more resolving headphone, although the K1000 is still a fine, though lesser, headphone. But, of course, the HE90 is clearly superior to both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood
I've sat down and listened to the K1000's with a dead quiet room at 4 in the morning a lot. And compared them to my R10's. I've done this for quite some time now.

And the K1000's are detailed, but sorry, there are some things that I can hear on the R10's and not the K1000's. Which tells me the R10's are more detailed than the K1000's.

Soundstage, I guess is alot more personal preference.

-Ed
Reply
post #87 of 198
2/23/06 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
(This is not a citicism on you, Andrea...)

...but I think a few things need to be clarified. For a speaker amp -- which is the norm with the K 1000 -- the Leben isn't really a «powerful amp», with its 2x 32 watt. There are many much more powerful amps around which have been tried with the K 1000, among them my own BEL 1001 which easily triples the Leben's output power. I'm sure it's not about power, but (sonic!) synergy. The three amps I tried it with showed about the same sonic balance, although each with its distinct characteristic also noticeable through «normal» headphones.

So I think the K 1000 does have critical sonic properties which need to be compensated for -- in the form of equalizing or amp matching. I'm sure it wouldn't sound good on a perfectly neutral amp, no matter how «powerful».

That said, it certainly has a high level of «technical» capacity in many aspects and hence might be worth the effort for those who have the patience for the search for a matching amp and the necessary funds. The others may want to look for a good equalizer, which may be the technically more logical path with even higher (sonic) potential -- apart from the additional electronics in the signal path (save you have the ideal configuration for a digital equalizer).

BTW, I really liked its bass characteristic, but missed the low bass.
.
Hi Jazz.

I've tried the Leben also with the DT880, K701, and all other cans you can see in the italian-mini-meeting thread. And I can assure that Leben sounds more linear and more "solid state" than a real solid state like the NX01. Especially in bass department.

So the things are probably more complicated ... (and I don't have the key to totally clarify this).

Anyway yes, my "powerful amp" affermation was not clear. Better is, as you've said, speak about "synergy" (but Leben is not overly bass-loaded).

Let's me say that, with that configuration, K701 has less powerfull bass than K1000.
Maybe K1000 have some "little" problems on the lowest notes, but I should listen to them once again with some "critical" cd to assure this.

Anyway... K701 are coming in my rig.

bye
Andrew
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post #88 of 198
2/23/06 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg
I agree 100% with these observations by Ed regarding hearing some things with the R10 that can't be heard with the K1000. The R10 is definitely a more resolving headphone, although the K1000 is still a fine, though lesser, headphone. But, of course, the HE90 is clearly superior to both.
So, I have/had all the cans of this planet... less the best one

Not all the owners that have both R10 and BO, think like you...

Best!
Nicola
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post #89 of 198
2/23/06 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhd812
lol

I love your posts Nik, first the ps-1 were the best, then the omeg's,then the perfect can one time was the q10,then the l3000,then this,and that...

lol you are even better with the amps you use to...lol
The best is that at one time DT880's were the best. I have those and they are the only cans I can afford at the moment
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post #90 of 198
2/23/06 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_villain
The best is that at one time DT880's were the best. I have those and they are the only cans I can afford at the moment
Yes, you are right... the DT880 WITH EARMAX AE is still the best... for the highest synergi... I don't lile the DT880 with the Leben CS-600 amp, I have tried them just during our minimeeting...

Best!
Nicola

PS:
Before to write, think a bit more... please... and go to read back posts... thanks !
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