K1000 vs R10 ... - Page 5

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Are you kidding me???? I can think of at least 5 tube amps just off the top of my head not to mention all the SS amps. No offense but, if you think that ANY ASL is the best at anything, you're wrong.

Well I have heard the K-1000 in the Qualia store meeting, out of two tube monoblocks (don't remember the brand now) and later on in other meetings as well, even on balanced operation, and out of some different amps, and honestly all the times I have heard it, IMO the bass is not up to my liking (to call it the least, but you know that I'm a basshead...LOL...)

The R-10 is a lot easier to drive and easier to get a decent bass out of it IMO.....I do not want to argue with you, as I respect and like you, and enjoy your posts very much, or even worst to water your soup, if you are fully enjoying what you are listening now, and this is only my personal opinion, based on my limited experience, but to be brutally honest with you, I do not believe that any amp could improve the bass performance of the K-1000 to the level near to be a life like presentation (what I was looking for) or at a level near an acceptable one. That is why many many people use subwoofers or other solutions with it....
We are talking of a few db of increment, not just an effect or a coloration due to the use of different tubes or different amps......about the rest of the aspects of the sound, I agree with you that this is a nice and really good sounding headphone....but it needs bass, and I'm not alone on that....now the same old topic, don't tell me that you need an amp 10 times the cost of the headphone as I really and strongly doubt that AKG designed the headphone for those amps, even though in the past they have this amp, fully designed to drive it, by the same AKG...I don't think that it will cost anything near the half of those monsters you are using with it....here is a pic:



Also I have noticed along my career as headfier, that people get satisfied in the majority of the cases, in the bass dpt, with a lot less of what it is indeed needed to offer a lifelike presentation where you feel the kick of the bassdrum or the rumble of the pipe organ, or things like that...Sorry I'm used to a subwoofer, and it gaves me that feeling....And I said feel, not hear, as sometimes you feel those things....So everytime I heard people talking of bass in headphones, I need to hear them for myself....and in most of the cases after hearing them I was not satisfied at all....with a few exceptions of boomy or exagerated bass, and not accurate or integrated into the music at all...

I'm not kidding, although I acknowledge that I may be wrong. I realize that there are better amps for driving speakers, but I doubt that we'd hear a clear difference between them when listening with a K1000 headphone. Have you actually compared the sound of a K1000 driven by several of these superior solid state and tube amps? Can you cite some past Head-Fi threads or postings which report and compare how well various amps drive a K1000 headphone?

If I really really had to pick only one. I'd pick the R10.

But I have both of them. So I don't have to pick.

-Ed

One thing that is an asset and a liability for the K1000's that I've experienced is the mid bass. There is a bit of a "hump" in the frequency there. As in it's a bit more exaggerated compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. While this makes for a more aggressive and fun sound, because of the rather steep low bass roll off, it really feels like it's there to compensate for the lack of the lowest octaves. Now mind you, I like the midbass hump, or bump up, but it does not keep the K1000's as flat and as neutral as it could be. But I don't think the K1000's would be quite as exciting without it.

I've tried my K1000's with my Velodyne HGS-10 servo sub, and while it is one of my favorites for playing games on the big screen TV with headphones, the sub, as fast as it is, is still too slow to keep up with the K1000's. There is just too much of a disconnect.

Probably the main reason I prefer the R10's to the K1000's is that while the K1000's are the most speaker-like sounding of headphones I've heard, the R10's are the most life-like sounding of headphones I've heard, with one of the most "holographic" imaging and soundstage presentation I've heard. And I'm just a detail nut as well. The R10's are more detailed than the K1000's.

But as I've stated in a review, the two headphones are rather seasonal for me. In hot weather, I cannot stand to wear the R10's without heavy air conditioning for long periods. But in winter time, I can practically wear my R10's forever. The K1000's are perfect for hot weather, and are fine for colder weather too, but the metal screens do get pretty cold sometimes.

And the K1000's can hurt the top of my ears if I wear them for more than 4 hours straight.

-Ed

FWIW, the AKG SAC K1000 amp is certainly worth around $500-600 used IMO, but otherwise it is overrated. While it has balanced inputs, it is in fact Single Ended output only. The 4 pin XLR outputs in the front are more for convenience and not having to use an adapter cable, but the grounds are tied together, hence, it's single ended.

-Ed

K1000 all the way

Nik, please do not misunderstood me, and why is so important that I offer you my approval? If you enjoy what you hear it is OK with me, and I feel happy for you, and it should be more than enough for you, who am I at the end???? Another cloth ears headfier........but I still consider you among my friends here, so please do not get mad with me.....

I consider you my friend, and as such I do not expect you to get mad with me just becasue I try to express my opinion based in my little experience, but IMO and only that IMO of course, and seeing what you have done along the time, what I have seen is that you are going backwards (or at least in complete opposite direction of what I would go) with your headphone selections, of course we have different taste and ears, but as a side note (IMO and only that) the best headphone you have tried and have owned so far and for my personal taste is the R-10, do not get rid of it for God's sake!!!!.....You have a jewel in your hands and it is not so easy to get nowadays....Why trying and enjoy a lot of headphone even the over the R-10 that IME are in a completelly diferent class? HD650, PS-1, HP-1000, K701, DT880, L3000, even the Qualia, etc...according to what I have heard I will not trade the R-10 anyday for any of those, well actually not even my bright, gray and ugly CD3000 that is a lot more humble headphone....

But for your peace of mind, you have the right this time, first the K1000 is a very capable headphone, and I consider it as such, just that not on the bass dpt, 99% of the owners complaint about the same, the bass, I have experienced and heard it myself also, and feel exactly the same way, and now you are telling us that the K-1000 offer an exceptionally good performance in the bass what is the opposite of the majority of us had experienced, that is IMO a litle weird...and the second you got again the beloved R-10, I wish I could afford to have one I'm drooling here just looking at your setup man....


How many good single ended amps we had in the market? To be single ended doesn't make it a bad amp, I ahve not heard it myself, but they made that amp for this headphone, and only for that, so it is logical that they know better than us what they have designed, and what that headphone is able to do, and what it should sound.....if I decided to go with the K-1000 one day, that amp will be my starting point at least to see what's going on....I have haard other considered better amps for it, inlcuding some balanced amps, and I have not liked them at all.....

Hi Sov,

As I've already said, I've listened to the K1000 with the Leben (before tube-rolling), and I've found the bass of the "strange-AKG" surprisingly full bodied and present (more present than K701 one). I never felt the need for a subwoofer. I am the first to be surprised for this, having read many things on this forum concerning K1000 bass.
With a precisation: I used K1000 with the drivers very slightly angled. If you "open" the headphone angle, you loose the bass.

bye
Andrew

Yes, I remember that

It was because I was expecting a weak and "diffuse" bass, having read opinions here in headfi. And suddenly cellos and electric bass filled the air around my head with an heavy bass mass. So I was totally positively surprised.

But with that amp (Leben CS600) and that signal cable (Sunhyata). Of course all people who find K1000 bass weak are not "deaf", maybe they didn't had the opportuniny to amp them with the right amp (and our opinions is that K1000 need a powerful amp to shine on bass - only be careful with volume knob ).

Andrew

My journey

I like to add my 2 cents too since this post has been one of the best threads I've read in a long time here...

First off, I really do appreciate Nik's enthusiasm and his ability to find the magic every so often with different cans. Recently its the AKG K1000.

I'm a detail nut. Ergo, I instantly had to get the Qualia's (not cheap) as soon as I demoed them in NY. The Q's were substantially better than the RS-1's. Period. Just a different class of can. It was very hard for me to except...strike that...it was very hard for my wallet to except. I knew I was going to be in deep (cans/amp/source, etc.).

Now with that set aside, I started to use my RS-1's at work. But over time, they lost their magic. The Qualia's systematically defuzzified me! I actually noticed the lack of detail when I would listen to the same track with the RS-1's at work over the Qualia's (at one point, I was just using my Apogee before the Dynamight).

That brings me to my new work setup, the AKG K1000's and the topic at hand. I have been enjoying the K1K's for over 2 months now everyday and they are the perfect compliment to the Qualia's in terms of detail.

However Nik, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Sov on this one (and he hates my beloved Qualia's). The biggest drawback to the K1K's is the BASS department. I have not heard any K1K setup that really shines in bass (I even heard the K1K's connected to a Singlepower Supra). Its there, its super tight, but its not prominent or a first-class citizen in the piece. I'm using the Super T-Amp and Apogee MiniDAC (I really need two MiniDACs at this point but that's another story) so perhaps a higher end amp like an EAR or high-SS amp could correct this. But I suspect not. I don't forsee the AKG K1000's really delivering the bass punch that my Q's or 5K's can deliver.

With that said, I think the R10 lacks in the bass department as well (at least the last time I compared them to the L3K's which have booming bass).

I would be very curious to a R10 vs. AKG K1000 vs. Qualia comparo (hmmm, I think its time to call raisin for a mini-meet)....

We made it... :
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163123

bye
Andrew