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post #166 of 198
3/13/06 at 11:07am
I'm a bit tired of members questioning the reputation of listeners that have first hand experience, and without any doubt Nik is one of the head-fiers with the most first hand experience ever.
In his opinion the "mass-produced" K701 is overall a better headphone than the more expensive contenders.First of all it's his opinion based on experience instead of assumptions, and your mileage might vary but without any personal experience you will never know.
It's not exactly a rare phenomenon that a new mass produced and relatively cheap technical item is overall better than an outdated expensive old one.
For example a new $10000 stock motorcycle does without any doubt outperform a fifteen year old $30000 motorcycle, it happens all the time and is called progress.
In fact I do explicitely second Nik's opinion that the K701s are overall superior to the 18 years old K1000s.Based on personal experience and IMO.
I love the K1000s for what they are, the most comfortable headphones ever especially in the summertime, and therefor I will keep them.They are still enjoyable, but in audiophile terms they are outperformed by their successor, regardless of price.
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post #167 of 198
3/13/06 at 11:36am
On which day do you agree with Nik's opinion?

As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
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post #168 of 198
3/13/06 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
On which day do you agree with Nik's opinion?
here we go again.
Correct me if I'm wrong : Is that a sarcastic comment about Nik's enthusiasm whenever he discovers a special synergy?
Well, I'd always prefer a head-fier's passionate enthusiasm based on experience over criticism based on assumptions.
I don't know how often I would agree with Nik, I don't like to assume.
I've only owned one rig partly similar to one of his former favorites, an Omega II driven by a Rudistor Egmont amp, and in fact it was one of the best rigs I ever listened to.
Quote:
As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
I did not talk about other new cans, but in fact dynamic cans have improved a lot over the last twenty years.I never listened to a R10 (I guess you did own one?).
The Orpheus is still competitive, but that might be just an exception to the general rule.
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post #169 of 198
3/13/06 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
On which day do you agree with Nik's opinion?

As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
I do not like perosn like you, that without know another heafier (me), write explicit judgements about the person. This is a headphones forum, you can tell what you want about cans and amps, please respect me and all the others headfiers. I have my experience with setups and you have yours, I respect you and you respect me, please!

Just to know...

I think to sell my K1000 during these days, and this was te second pair I had. I prefer the 701 to them even if the K1000 is a very uncommon cans and even if the 701 costs half of the price. My amp can drive both very well, so the problem was not the driver. I find the 701 more equilibrated in all the range of frequences and a fuller sound in the med and bass region.

Nicola
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post #170 of 198
3/13/06 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
On which day do you agree with Nik's opinion?

As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
Did you have read this? http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ar...ls.php?id=4320

Nicola
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post #171 of 198
3/13/06 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
The Orpheus is still competitive, but that might be just an exception to the general rule.
I agree with you, but it' funny how things 'progress'. I mean, with older technology, there is still the fact that one may just prefer the sound. While things can get technically better, humans being humans have preferences which suit particular, in this case listening, traits.

For me, the HE90 headphone is/was leaps and bounds ahead of its time. In fact when the system was created, most of the time and money was not spent on creating the HEV90 (good looking but nothing super special), but rather getting the HE90 'perfect'. 1994... that is ancient in terms of modern technology for the most part.

...Nik, I've followed your headphone adventure for quite some time. And indeed, you are quite a bit more adventurous than many. Building 'perfect' rig number 1 only to start over and do it all again with different equipment and then to write up your opinions is a service to us at headfi. Your posts are a resource.

Do we have to take everything Nik says as Gospel? Heck No! But *I* personally believe that absorbing as much info as possible is never a bad thing... store it away for the future. Who knows when you might entertain a rig that Nik has already dissected?

Neil
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post #172 of 198
3/13/06 at 1:31pm
Thread Starter 
Right!

I never thought that my experiences are gospel...

I just write "online" my tests, minute by minute... because this is my first and only one passion in my life!

Best!
Nicola
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post #173 of 198
3/13/06 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
Correct me if I'm wrong : Is that a sarcastic comment about Nik's enthusiasm whenever he discovers a special synergy?
Well, I'd always prefer a head-fier's passionate enthusiasm based on experience over criticism based on assumptions.
Agree. And I can assure you that Leben+K701 sinergy is something that an headphone lover "has" to listen, given the relative cheap price of the new AKG.

Quote:
I've only owned one rig partly similar to one of his former favorites, an Omega II driven by a Rudistor Egmont amp, and in fact it was one of the best rigs I ever listened to.
Agree again. I've listened to Nik's Egmont+OmegaII system: imho one of the best system ever.

Quote:
Quote:
As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
I did not talk about other new cans, but in fact dynamic cans have improved a lot over the last twenty years.I never listened to a R10 (I guess you did own one?).
The Orpheus is still competitive, but that might be just an exception to the general rule.
I have the Baby-Orpheus, and I can tell that it stands comparison with the best cans around (dynamic or electrostatic) in many aspects. So I think that Orpheus is even better. I compared them with K1000, K701, R10, HD650, L3000, Qualia, Dt880&990 at an italian mini-meeting... and I had to buy it!

Moreover, I think that R10 is one of the best dynamic cans I've ever heard, warm, yet correct, natural, yet trasparent, with a suprising headstage for a closed type (and not only).

The Qualia: I like very much its air, dynamic, and transparency. And its balance, except for a strange "clarity" on the highs, a little unnatural to my ears.

My two cents for my experience.

bye
Andrew
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post #174 of 198
3/13/06 at 2:57pm
Interesting thread. I keep checking in, but can't ever figure out exactly what I can say to make a real contribution. I think this thread is a good example of how 'headphone guys' like to talk about headphones, and hey, there isn't anything wrong with that.

To decide which one is 'better' or 'best' is an inherently subjective matter. You can't take the listener out of the equation, so what's good, better or best for Nik might not be the same for me. Moreover, we all use different supporting components (sources, amps, cables), we all have different musical tastes (very different, I suspect!), listen at different times of the day and in different kinds of chairs/couches. All of this matters.

Plus, once you get into the upper leagues like the kinds of cans being discussed on this thread, they ALL can sound fabulous in the right system (K1000, R10, L3000, K701, HD650, HE90, Omega II, Qualia 010, the list goes on and on, and there is no real need to debate which one is the "best" because as we all know, the only real answer is, "It depends!" ... unless, "I like them all" is an acceptable answer.)

BTW, my Qualia 010 are now on the way (I finally broke down and bought a pair in the used market). Madness, I tell you!
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post #175 of 198
3/13/06 at 2:58pm
OK, I've scanned through this thread and there's some great discussion here.

I too heard the Pass Labs Aleph 3 amp at the NJ meet and that's the best I've heard the K1000. I had another member's ASL MGHEAD amp and for ~$200 that's a good little K1000 amp too. I'm currently working on a Pass DIY Zen v9 amp for my K1000s. I'll report back when it's done. I think these cans need the right balance of voltage/current gain to really shine. With higher voltage gain, but low current gain....it doesn't cut it and vice versa.

On bass: I think the K1000 bass is excellent when the cans are driven properly. It's tight, punchy, and there's a good balance between mids/highs/lows. The K1000 might not be in the same class as the R10 or Qualia, but it comes close I think.
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post #176 of 198
3/13/06 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
Aren't things like that article the entire reason we need forums like this? Because the average person actually BELIEVES the 25 dollar headphones are no different than high-end cans?
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post #177 of 198
3/13/06 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyvn
Aren't things like that article the entire reason we need forums like this? Because the average person actually BELIEVES the 25 dollar headphones are no different than high-end cans?
If a $25 headphone sounds the same to a person as a $400 headphone, to that person, the $400 headphone is no better than the $25 headphone. Fortunately there are far more people on head-fi who would disagree with that statement that those that would agree - i.e. more people who can hear a marked improvement going from an unamped KSC-35 to an amped K701 (for example.) And yes, in that sense, that is one reason why I read these forums, to help me get some idea of what's out that is has a chance of being worth spending my money and time (and effort) in hunting down to buy or audition.

Often when we discuss 'better' and 'worse' in these forums, we are implicitly saying 'to someone of tastes similar to mine.' Which is why I take no offense when someone says my favorite headphones are crap, and I'm only mildly suprised when the least favorite of my high-ish end cans is praised as the best thing ever by some head-fiers. Both those parties are correct. And I'm correct. And you're correct. Hence the very commonly used but rarely heeded adage 'trust your own ears.'

Of course after spending some time here, and reading the opinions of some of the regular and active posters you do get some idea of their tastes, likes and dislikes, and know where they overlap with yours and where they are likely to differ.
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post #178 of 198
3/13/06 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amartignano
Agree. And I can assure you that Leben+K701 sinergy is something that an headphone lover "has" to listen, given the relative cheap price of the new AKG.



Agree again. I've listened to Nik's Egmont+OmegaII system: imho one of the best system ever.



I have the Baby-Orpheus, and I can tell that it stands comparison with the best cans around (dynamic or electrostatic) in many aspects. So I think that Orpheus is even better. I compared them with K1000, K701, R10, HD650, L3000, Qualia, Dt880&990 at an italian mini-meeting... and I had to buy it!

Moreover, I think that R10 is one of the best dynamic cans I've ever heard, warm, yet correct, natural, yet trasparent, with a suprising headstage for a closed type (and not only).

The Qualia: I like very much its air, dynamic, and transparency. And its balance, except for a strange "clarity" on the highs, a little unnatural to my ears.

My two cents for my experience.

bye
Andrew
What was your impressions of the K1000? (esp. compared to the 701)

Thanks,
Rob
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post #179 of 198
3/13/06 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
I would like to tell that I have testes A LOT of NOS fantastic tube on my Leben CS-600, sometimes just the littlest "detail" do the different. With the best of th best GEC CV1075/KT66 I have now, the most pleasure sound I have obteined with the K 701. So, as Wayne told, when we speak of one headphones each one of us think a different cans ...

When I'm think to 701 and Andrew think to his 701 (with his setup and amp) we are talking of two differents 701 !!!

Best!
Nicola
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post #180 of 198
3/13/06 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
As for "progress," by your reasoning, the R10 and Orpheus should easily take a backseat to the 701 and many other new cans
Wmcmanus put it wisely, it's all depending on the listener and his various habits. For instance, by the same reasoning as Nik's, my HD650 could very well edge all the cans he's ever had.
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