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post #121 of 198
3/10/06 at 8:26pm
Have you guys noticed a big difference between the balanced and unbalanced K1000? To me, there doesn't sound like as big a distinction as something like the HD650 balanced versus unbalanced.

I'm wondering whether or not to get a balanced amp or just a good power amp for the K1000.
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post #122 of 198
3/10/06 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook
Have you guys noticed a big difference between the balanced and unbalanced K1000? To me, there doesn't sound like as big a distinction as something like the HD650 balanced versus unbalanced.

I'm wondering whether or not to get a balanced amp or just a good power amp for the K1000.
I'm a bit confused.
I always thought all speaker amps are providing a balanced signal, at least at the output stage.
Do you mean balanced operation throughout? Beginning at the source via a XLR cable to the fully balanced amp?
However, I have nothing valuable to contribute to your question.
My DACs are fully balanced and my amp for the K1000s is fully balanced, and I'm extemely happy with the resulting sound quality, but naturally a comparison between my balanced rig and unbalanced operation ( Benchmark HPA 2, RKV Mk II, Lehmann BCL, Corda Prehead I + II) or "half balanced" operation (several speaker amps) would be comparing apples to oranges.

The closest I could get to "a bit unbalanced" in my current configuration is connecting one of my DACs via RCA out to the RCA in of my speaker amp, but as soon as the signal enters the amp it is turned into a balanced signal by a special curcuit anyway since the amp itself needs a balanced signal in order to work.

Wait a minute, I can simply do it, I'm sitting in front of the rig.

O.K., I did it, and the difference between balanced throughout and "a bit unbalanced" is audible, but no day and night difference.Even connected the wrong way this amp sounds better than anything else I've used so far.In the end it my test doesn't make sense and it doesn't answer your question.
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post #123 of 198
3/11/06 at 12:02am
I thought balanced connection to headphone means each channel is driven by two amplifications devices working in opposite directions (push-pull). It is generally used in hi-end solid state amplifiers for speakers and, more recently, headphones. For such amplification to work, two wires must be used for each driver, and hence four wires for a headphone. Most heapdhones come with a three-wire cable terminated in TRS plug. Hence , these headphones need to be modified to work with balanced amplifiers.

K1000 has a four-wire cable, but I rarely see it driven by balanced SS amplifiers. The term "balanced" for SS amplification has always been quite confusing, at least to me.
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post #124 of 198
3/11/06 at 12:43am
Cosmo, my question should be two-fold: are all speaker amps truly balanced? If this is the case, then why do some amps not have balanced inputs, only RCA?

I've always assumed that not all amps are balanced because if an amp isn't being driven by a balanced source, what benefits are there of balanced?

If all speaker amps are essentially balanced, then my balanced headphone amp versus unbalanced speaker amp doesn't apply.
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post #125 of 198
3/11/06 at 12:46am

All speaker amps are NOT balanced.

Actually most are not. Even amps with XLR connectors are not always balanced. They are there for convenience.
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post #126 of 198
3/11/06 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferbose
K1000 has a four-wire cable, but I rarely see it driven by balanced SS amplifiers.
I see it every day when I look at my rig, and I guess most K1000s are driven this way.Well, not exacly fully balanced throughout from the source to the output stage of the amp like in my rig, but most K1000s are driven by good speaker amps.It seems to me to be a head-fi oddity to use weak headphone amps for the purpose.Most european K1000s owners I'm aware of plug them into their amps they already own for their speakers.

And what do you mean by
Quote:
It is generally used in hi-end solid state amplifiers for speakers
Do you equate "high end" with "expensive"?
Good SS amplifiers are due to competition and economies of scale relatively inexpensive.They don't cost more than good headphone amps.
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post #127 of 198
3/11/06 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawlowski6132
Actually most are not. Even amps with XLR connectors are not always balanced. They are there for convenience.
Maybe, I'm not sure.An EE told me some time ago that most SS amps have at least a balanced output stage, but maybe he was wrong.
However, even my amp has some connectors for convenience since most oldish sources don't provide balanced signals.
When I tested the amp I didn't even know that it's fully balanced.It was recommended by some german AKG K1000s users, and in fact I was blown away by the sound quality.I got it ridiculously cheap, less expensive than some of the headphone amps I had purchased in the past.The audio world is really weird, I'm still stunned what a good amp I got for what I consider kind of pocket money.Balanced headphone amps in comparison are totally overpriced and they won't also drive my speakers better than the huge Sansui I had before.

Edit :All this is totally off topic.Sorry, Nik.
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post #128 of 198
3/11/06 at 4:30am

i like both of them!

i like both of them!
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post #129 of 198
3/11/06 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_villain
The best is that at one time DT880's were the best. I have those and they are the only cans I can afford at the moment
Well, we know DT880s are playing with the big boys (mentioned often in the company of these others), so who cares if they win or not? They're in the major leagues, and at a cheaper price than the others. They sound so good to my ears, I don't want any other headphone (except I'm very curious about the K701).
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post #130 of 198
3/11/06 at 4:58am
cosmopragma,

I looked up your CEC amp3300, a very attractive product indeed.
It seems like a balanced design. I guess that is why it can produce 60W of class A power without running too hot. Since it has push-pull transistors, voltage swing is doubled and power quadrupled.
I see a very peculiar volume control, so is it essentially an integrated amplifier?
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post #131 of 198
3/11/06 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
Maybe, I'm not sure.An EE told me some time ago that most SS amps have at least a balanced output stage, but maybe he was wrong.
From what I understand, a push pull amplifier topology is required for what is considered a balanced output stage. My amp has a single ended output stage, and I am very happy with it. There are many arguments on push-pull vs. single ended: it seems that both methods have their pros and cons but properly implemented both methods can sound great.
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post #132 of 198
3/11/06 at 11:30am
Before this thread derail in another push/pull-single ended debate, or balanced-unbalanced debate, we would like to know the status quo of the Nik decision on this topic, what was the end of the story, could we consider the K-1000 better than the R-10? Or vice? What are the main differences in those expensive and good rigs, for those two nice cans, what they do, and what they don't do better...etc....
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post #133 of 198
3/11/06 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller
what was the end of the story, could we consider the K-1000 better than the R-10? Or vice? What are the main differences in those expensive and good rigs, for those two nice cans, what they do, and what they don't do better...etc....
I've listened to both headphones at Nik's home: in my opinion there's no a winner. They are very different and at a very high level. I switched between the two sometimes and I thought "damn, how can two differents sounds like these two, be so "perfect", each in its particular way?!?".

The end of the story (which I know more or less), I let Nik to talk about it.

bye
Andrew
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post #134 of 198
3/11/06 at 12:57pm
Thread Starter 
As the amp dedate (single ended or push pull) they have pros and cons, the two marvelous cans (R10 and K1000) still have their pros and cons and in a opposite way. Some recording are too full-body with R10 and too thin-bright with K1000, there is a med way of the two? For all genre of music? I'd starting to think that would be the less expensive 701 ... in my setup.

As I said many times one thing is to tell which is "the best" or superior qualities cans, other is to declare which is the best sound coming out from your the setup... and probably I'd admit that this better sound comes with the K 701 (...) (!?). Leben CS-600/701/GEC KT66 this is the most equilibrated sound in any combinations I have tested. But thi sis another discussion, the 701 is OT here.). The last tube s I have tried, GEC KT66, in the Leben CS-600give life and impressive musicality to the 701 that is the most sensitive to tuberolling between the 3 cans.

Best!
Nicola
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post #135 of 198
3/11/06 at 2:29pm
Hi Nik!

I like your new avatar... I'm feeling like I've already seen it before in some way...

I'm beginning to agree with your choice. Having listened all this day with the K701 with various genres of music, I feel that the new AKG flagship is one of the most balanced and best sounding dynamic cans around.

Happy music
Andrew
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