Heh, nice one acidtripwow. I knew someone would voice up about the Grado kings.

The RS-1 cousin...........Alessandro/Grado Music Series Pro.

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Great idea!

HD 600ca (Cardas cables)
HD 600cb (Clou Blue cables)
HD 600cr (Clou Red cables)
HD 600sa (Stephan Art Equinox cables)


I like it

Have not heard the HD600 with upgraded cables, but unless they turn it around 180 degrees I'll have to hand my vote to the RS-1. The Senn's sound veiled and constricted regardless of source or amp.

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I would've asked if you'd heard them out of the Headmaster, and you have. I personally have only heard the HD600 out of the Grado RA-1 and can say that it did sound veiled there with a very annoying, overriding bass response. Compared to the RS-1 out of the RA-1, I thought the RS-1 was more transparent most likely because it was definitely brighter and lacked the midbass hump, while also being partnered with a good amp that achieves good synergy with the RS-1. But honestly, compared to the W100, the RS-1's midrange was lacking in transparency; it also seemed a tad coloured. Though I was sure that the HD600 will become better than the RS-1 with better amps like the Sugden, yet you cliam it still sounds veiled? Blah! I say. Maybe you should consider replaceing "veiled" with the euphemism "smooth" like everyone else . . .

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Trust me... "veiled and constricted regardless of amp" sure isn't a universal truth

I haven't read the amp thread yet. If you're going to plug the HD600 into the RA-1 amp, ever, then don't bother. Skip the HD600. If you're going to get a different amp, it becomes an option.

Beagle, you've previously mentioned thinking the HD600 has very overamphasized bass. The midbass hump is somewhat tamed by the Cardas cable but not to a great extent. If you think the HD600's bass is fatiguing before adding the Cardas, it probably still will be after Cardas -- even on a good amp.

You've also said, repeatedly, that you don't believe the SR- series Grados to be bright whereas most of us, including me, very much do. If you don't find the SR- series too bright, you shouldn't find the RS-1 bright either.

The RS-1 is faster and cleaner and still very smooth, especially compared to the (to me) somewhat harsh Grado SR-s. The HD600 is more on the lush side which I think Sennheiser fans find more inviting. The Cardas helps with the recessed upper midrange/vocal range but doesn't completely solve that problem, either. Texture is greatly improved with the Cardas, but the resolution of the HD600 takes a back seat to most more expensive cans.

My belief is that many people like the sound of the HD600 because headphones in general have a tendency to sound too up close and personal compared to good speakers (and arguably compared to the way the engineer intended the recording to sound). The HD600 pushes you away from that a little and for some this meakes the sound more natural and less fatiguing. If part of what drives you to love headphones is being able to analyze the details, I can't help but feel the HD600 is the wrong headphone for you--at least if you're only going to have one pair.

In general, I think this thread was rhetorical. Beagle has always been a Grado fan and the only obstacle here would be the very high price of the RS-1.

For my taste, the RS-1 is simply too bright to be enjoyable but I'll probably revisit the Grado house sound when I enter my elderly years with a fraction of my current ability to perceive high frequencies.

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And I haven't listened to the RA-1, but the level of bass was just right to my ears with the Headmaster doing the driving. That amp's whiplashing speed and stingy bass did a terrific job of reigning in that loose Sennheiser bottom. In the end though I preferred the rounder, significantly deeper, more textured bass presented by the EMP.

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I agree wholeheartedly - the problem is finding that diamond in the rough that plays to the RS-1's strengths rather than undermining them.

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The W100 is definitely at the top of my list along with the HP-1 on headphones to try. Now I want to hear them even more

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I've found this only to be true when the amplifiers synergy was leaning greatly in the HD600's favour. The RS-1 sounds more resolving and natural to me when on a level playing field.

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Maybe... If the replacement cables I eventually get around to purchasing restore the upper midrange/treble energy back to the music, I'll consider replacing my choice euphemism. They'll then become merely 'distant.'

Kelly, have you tried pad swapping with the RS-1's? Through a closer coupling to the ear it's possible to achieve a darker sound than the HD600, even to the extent of severe treble rolloff if you so desire.

The RS-1 I heard at length was the one from the last Dallas meet that HeadRoom sent. It had the, now standard, bowl pads. I do believe you about the balance changing as the driver is positioned closer or further from the ear, but I have trouble believing you're not exagerating a little bit.

"Smooth" and "veiled" are NOT synonymous when I use the word "smooth."

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It sounds fine through the RA-1. Better clarity and transparity that with the X-Cans.

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It's not fatiguing, just not defined very well, it lacks dynamics and impact. It's like "simulated" bass, like "we don't have any real bass so we'll substitute this instead". The Cardas cable seems to help, at first, but this characteristic never really changes.

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I use the flat pads and have never experienced a bright Grado when using them. The bowl pads can sound bright.

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Yes, the HD600 holds everything back at a distance and from a distance, everything looks good, which is not accuracy. After a time, everything becomes samey and boring. You can't get INTO the music, you can only LOOK at it and analyze the recordings. Not much fun. But for those times when you want smooth, laid back and relaxing sound, the HD600 is superb. But I can use the AKGK501 for those times when I want a more distant perspective, but still keeping dynamics intact.

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Interesting, because one of the problems I had with the HD600 was that it seemed to present music as individual components, rather than the whole. The Grados deliver a nice tight musical package that is very involving and dynamic.

The HD600 is like a tour guide, pretty, polite, helpful, shows you everything but makes you yawn and long for something else after a while.

I've owned the HD600 for 3 1/2 years and respect the things it does well (and it does do a lot of things well) but I have never learned to live with it's politeness and lack of dynamics and impact.

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The HD600 sucks with the RA-1. That it sucks less with the RA-1 than the X-Cans is irrelevent.

The midrange is very nice with the MG Head, but the Head lacks low end extension and will do little to solidify the HD600's soft bass.

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It's not fatiguing, just not defined very well, it lacks dynamics and impact. It's like "simulated" bass, like "we don't have any real bass so we'll substitute this instead". The Cardas cable seems to help, at first, but this characteristic never really changes.

I agree. The Cardas helps some and better amps help some but this never completely goes away with the HD600. For something similar to the HD600 sound with less of a bass hump, audition the DT931 (with a 120ohm adapter).

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I use the flat pads and have never experienced a bright Grado when using them. The bowl pads can sound bright.

Zanth insists it's night and day with the RS-1 and flatpads. I'll have to try that if I ever have another opportunity with the RS-1.

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But for those times when you want smooth, laid back and relaxing sound, the HD600 is superb.

I'd say this underlines the HD600 regardless of associated equipments or cables. It also makes it nice for poor recordings.

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Interesting, because one of the problems I had with the HD600 was that it seemed to present music as individual components, rather than the whole. The Grados deliver a nice tight musical package that is very involving and dynamic.

I haven't found this to be the case in my system but this could be relative to the source and amp. The HD600 is capable of sounding cohesive and in fact doesn't do enough to seperate the notes individually for my taste.

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I've owned the HD600 for 3 1/2 years and respect the things it does well (and it does do a lot of things well) but I have never learned to live with it's politeness and lack of dynamics and impact.

It's not for everyone. For me, I think the HeadRoom amps and HD600 have much in common and together they really tell a story about Tyll's preferences.

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Having used the RA-1 with HD-580 and HD-600 with good results, I can report that they are indeed a good combination..as is the HD-600/X-Can.

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I can report the opposite, as I did. Let me put this question to you, Hirsch: name some amplifiers the HD600 pairs worse with. Name some that pair better. Which list is longer?

This is irrelevent. Beagle's options including "keeping the HD600 and getting an MG Head." I like this option better than the RA-1, but it won't solve Beagle's major complaints with the HD600--notably the soft bass.

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It depends on what one considers "better or worse". If the bass problem of the HD600 exists with the majority of amps, then that list is longer. This is why I can never figure out why people love to pair the HD600 (bass problems) with tubes (bass problems). Sure, the midrange is magical but...

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If you equate tubes with bass problems, you've got some surprizes coming when you stop to listen to them. When you find an amp with better bass than the RKV or HP4, tell me about it...