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DAC Showdown: AQVOX USB 2 D/A vs. Benchmark DAC1 vs. Lavry Black DA10 - Page 7

post #91 of 133
2/19/06 at 12:03am
Anyone compare the Lavry Black with the Lavry Blue 2CH?

-Ed
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post #92 of 133
2/19/06 at 12:45am
http://headphones.exblog.jp/ had some a comparison between the blue and the black awhile back, but I can't seem to find it now(I'm a little sick, maybe it's right there, and I'm not spotting it). It looks like the post was edited a couple days ago, and they're only talking about the software upgrades. Maybe someone with better Japanese(and without a fever) can take a look.

In any case, I remember the reviewer found some differences between the blue and the black. I don't even want to try to remember exactly what they were right now, I'd probably misquote him big time. Lavry himself commented that he thought the sound would be very similar or the same, but it turns out the two have major architectural differences. Take this with a grain of salt, but IIRC the author of the blog found the black used a single stereo dac IC, whereas the blue used a separate stereo dac in differential mode for each channel; i.e. each channel was output in positive and inverted polarity using an entire stereo dac, and then recombined later. This was done to decrease cancel distortion in the dac IC, but it seems to have been abandoned in the black. Maybe it didn't make a big difference, or combining the two phases was detrimental to audio quality. I believe the combining was done by an already present amplification stage, as to not add another stage in the signal path. This was independent of the balancing of the DAC. Again, fever, bad Japanese skills, grain of salt...
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post #93 of 133
2/19/06 at 12:58am
The blue manual at http://www.lavryengineering.com/whit...s/4496_17c.pdf explains it on pages 8-10. If you look at the block diagram, there are actually 8 analog outputs generated at the dac ICs!

For 1 channel, the following analog outputs are generated:
Non-inverted analog output of non-inverted dac
Inverted analog output of non-inverted dac
Non-inverted analog output of inverted dac
Inverted analog output of inverted dac

Quote:
The DSP up-samples the data to double speed mode (unless the digital input is receiving double
speed data) and sends it to the DAC converters. Each channel conversion utilizes two converters
(inverting and non-inverting). The DSP pre-inverts the data sent to the inverting converter, thus
the two converters operate out of phase. Also, each converter has both a non-inverting analog
output and an inverting output. The same is true for each of the following anti-imaging filter
inputs. By reverse-connecting the filter inputs, both filter outputs are in phase again.

The advantage of this architecture is three-fold. First, operating the converters in parallel
provides an increased dynamic range. Second, some artifacts get canceled. Third, the addition of
the two filter signals is accomplished by 2 resistors, filter 1 to the summing node and filter 2 to
the summing node. Thus there is no need for an additional differential amplifier with its
associated sonic degradation).
It appears this archictecture was dropped in the black.
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post #94 of 133
2/19/06 at 1:02am
Almost reminds me of the Dac-AH with all those channels! Except the Dac-AH is all in phase. (and of course, the Lavry is far superior...it's just a similar idea used in just one of the many stages)
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post #95 of 133
2/20/06 at 11:57am
iron_dreamer,
have you tried the sa5k with an m^3? if so, do you think that the internal amp of the lavry sounds better??(thinking of lavry straight onto sa5k)

and

have you tried the da10 on the ppx-slam???

tnx for your time
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post #96 of 133
2/20/06 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noypi
iron_dreamer,
have you tried the sa5k with an m^3? if so, do you think that the internal amp of the lavry sounds better??(thinking of lavry straight onto sa5k)

and

have you tried the da10 on the ppx-slam???

tnx for your time
I've never heard an M3 or PPX3-SLAM. My guess is that if you have the money, they'd be worthwhile, for nothing else other than that you could tube or opamp roll the amps to tailor the sound better to your preferences and/or headphones. At least if the SLAM is anything like the regular PPX3's I've heard, you'll be sacrificing a bit of detail for tubiness, whereas the upper Singlepower models did not exhibit such a problem (IMO).
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post #97 of 133
2/20/06 at 6:45pm
Wonderful review. I thought my search was over. Miles to go before I sleep.
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post #98 of 133
2/20/06 at 10:34pm
tnx iron dreamer for the review. i think that this will be my first big purchase from headfi
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post #99 of 133
2/21/06 at 1:10am
I am impressed with the quality of sound that is coming out of the Lavry.
The combination of transparency, soundstage, and dynamics draws me into the music and doesn't let go until the CD is over. It has an elusive combination of smoothness and PRaT, which makes it a sweet source for my K1000 and HE60. I am looking forward to reading more opinions when the second build is complete.

Current system is a Pioneer DV-414 as transport connected to the Lavry with a Canare LV61S coaxial cable. The balanced outs are going through Bogdan Gold/Silver Spirit XLR to the Stax 007t > Senn HE-60, but even better is Lavry > Hosa XLR to RCA adaptors (modified for proper pinout) > Monster interconnect (to be replaced soon by Bogdan Gold/Silver Spirit RCA) > Pass Aleph 3 amp > AKG K1000
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post #100 of 133
2/21/06 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canman
but even better is Lavry > Hosa XLR to RCA adaptors (modified for proper pinout) > Monster interconnect (to be replaced soon by Bogdan Gold/Silver Spirit RCA) > Pass Aleph 3 amp > AKG K1000
Canman,
I was about to dismiss the Lavry because it only has balance outputs until I saw your comments about the Hosa XLR to RCA adapters. Where did you get the adapters and how much do they cost. Who did the mod to the adapters? What is the output voltage of the balanced outputs or are you the Lavry as a preamp? Does the Lavry have a fixed output voltage switch as well if I wanted to connect it to my integrated amp? Thanks.
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post #101 of 133
2/21/06 at 2:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveM324
Canman,
I was about to dismiss the Lavry because it only has balance outputs until I saw your comments about the Hosa XLR to RCA adapters. Where did you get the adapters and how much do they cost. Who did the mod to the adapters? What is the output voltage of the balanced outputs or are you the Lavry as a preamp? Does the Lavry have a fixed output voltage switch as well if I wanted to connect it to my integrated amp? Thanks.
You can get the adaptors at Guitar Center, among other places, they are about $10 each. To mod them, you just open them up and remove the wire connecting pins 1 and 3. The Lavry doesn't have a fixed output switch per se, you would just set the attenuator to the top level for the same effect. I'm sure it would have no problem working with an integrated amplifier.
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post #102 of 133
2/21/06 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
You can get the adaptors at Guitar Center, among other places, they are about $10 each. To mod them, you just open them up and remove the wire connecting pins 1 and 3. The Lavry doesn't have a fixed output switch per se, you would just set the attenuator to the top level for the same effect. I'm sure it would have no problem working with an integrated amplifier.
I bought the adaptors at 8th St. Music in Philly for about $7 each. If I remember correctly, I moved the return wire from pin 1 to pin 3, removed the jumper between pin 1 and pin 3, and left pin 1 unconnected. I did whatever it says is preferred in the manual. It only takes a few minutes once the soldering iron is heated up. If you are hesitant to do it yourself I would be happy to do it for you.

Since there is no potentiometer, it wouldn't hurt to run the Lavry into a preamp. It does work effectively as a preamp unless you want to switch between multiple sources.
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post #103 of 133
2/28/06 at 7:22pm
I got a chance this weekend to compare the Lavry directly to the Meridian G08, using the G08 as a transport. The Meridian G08 outputs spdif at 88.2 kHz so I selected narrow mode for the PLL. This was hooked up to the Singlepower ES-1 and Sennheiser Orpheus headphone. (see the meet thread for details on this sweet system).

I have to admit, the Lavry wasn't quite as refined as the Meridian, but this should be no surprise comparing a $1,000 DAC to a $4,000 CD player. Even though the Meridian clearly bested the Lavry here in terms of refinement, I still think the Lavry did very well for its price. Additionally, in my K1000 system, the Lavry seems to be a synergistic combo because it makes great music. Bottom line is I don't miss the G08 I used to own when I listen through the Lavry, even if the G08 is better.
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post #104 of 133
2/28/06 at 8:58pm
That is good news. Glad you like it. If I haven't already ordered interconnects for the lavry should i get them terminated in xlr female or is it better to use an RCA to XLR adapter?
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post #105 of 133
2/28/06 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canman
I have to admit, the Lavry wasn't quite as refined as the Meridian, but this should be no surprise comparing a $1,000 DAC to a $4,000 CD player. Even though the Meridian clearly bested the Lavry here in terms of refinement, I still think the Lavry did very well for its price. Additionally, in my K1000 system, the Lavry seems to be a synergistic combo because it makes great music. Bottom line is I don't miss the G08 I used to own when I listen through the Lavry, even if the G08 is better.
I don't understand how a player like G08 is unable to output bit-perfect digital stream (44.1kHz).

In every transport/PC+DAC combo I've tried, I've preferred simple 44.1kHz output; therefore, I have a thing against upsampling CDP/DAC's that don't at least have selectable 44.1kHz setting.

Oh, well, at least G08 does synchronous upsampling to 88.2kHz, and it's not a half-bad sounding player
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