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Discrete vs opamps... - Page 12

post #166 of 176
2/20/06 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover
I still believe discrete designs are MUCH better. I have yet to hear an op amp design that sounds remotely as good as a discrete amp. I have one of those generously hyped op amp portables in my possession right now and the flaws are obvious. Whatever the op amp is in this amp the sound quality is nowhere near as good as the discrete Gilmore Lite ..... thats the same price. The treble is VERY smeared and the whole soundstage is compressed in a little ball in the center of my head. The cymbals sound like they are coming out of the center vocalists back pocket.

This amp is harsh out of a buttery smooth modded cd-25 source into senn 600's or the akg 701's. My ears hurt after an hour. I cant imagine what this would sound like out of a bright and/ or unrefined source.

If I am going solid state ..... for headphone use ..... I want a discrete class A design.

Sorry to disagree one more time on this subject, but I have heard (and in some cases owned) a quite considerable amount of amps, discrete amps, and tube amps, mostly all of them top notch, including the most expensive models of all manufacturers, and even while all of them sound very good, and I even like some of them, I still have an op-amp based amp as my favorite, tweaked or whatever, but still there....

Headroom amps, Corda amps, and Ray amps, are mainly OP-amp based and they sound as good as any competitor, tube or discrete based if not better, not sure what you are talking about or what OP-Amp based amps have you heard, but this is an old myth, that nowadays does not hold a candle in the audio dark tunnel anymore.....

BTW I do not want ot bash anybody's work, but not sure who did this PPA, but mine has no traces at all of the smeared highs you mention above, all the opposite, and I'm using a fairly bright considered headphone, and avery fast OPamp....OTOH in some cases I heard that smear in some tube amps, and in some solid state amps, and I have heard also noise, hums, and other things that bothers me a lot more....
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post #167 of 176
2/20/06 at 1:26am
I'd agree that discrete "should" have an advantage but most of my favorite gear does , in fact, have opamps including sources and amps.
Maybe my ears aren't that good.
CPW
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post #168 of 176
2/20/06 at 6:51am
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I substituted a fully discrete phonostage for the IC-based one I've been using for the past few years.

Result: The discrete phonostage sounds clearly better, at a similar price point (GBP1,300 vs. GBP1,200).

I'm going discrete from now on!
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post #169 of 176
2/20/06 at 11:27am
Sugano-san : let's use a discrete opamp in the rkv now
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post #170 of 176
2/20/06 at 11:38am
I still can't believe the general consensus that A is better than B (or B is better than A) it all depends on the design of the damned thing! Badly designed and implemented both of the discussed types of amps will sound BAD. This automatic assumption that "A" type will automatically sound better than "B" type is wrong, totally wrong.
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post #171 of 176
2/20/06 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00940
Sugano-san : let's use a discrete opamp in the rkv now

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post #172 of 176
2/20/06 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
I still can't believe the general consensus that A is better than B (or B is better than A) it all depends on the design of the damned thing! Badly designed and implemented both of the discussed types of amps will sound BAD. This automatic assumption that "A" type will automatically sound better than "B" type is wrong, totally wrong.
I actually agree with you, and not only because my RKV works with an Opamp in the first amplification stage. But I find it indispensable to inject a little bit of irrationality into head-fi's discussions every once in a while.

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post #173 of 176
2/20/06 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
I still can't believe the general consensus that A is better than B (or B is better than A) it all depends on the design of the damned thing! Badly designed and implemented both of the discussed types of amps will sound BAD. This automatic assumption that "A" type will automatically sound better than "B" type is wrong, totally wrong.
Probably because one has intrinsic advantages over the other (if I read this thread correctly).

It's like saying that a steel sword is better than an iron sword. Sure, a good iron sword may be better than a badly forged steel sword, but there are still certain intrinsic advantages to using steel instead of iron.
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post #174 of 176
2/20/06 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugano-san
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I substituted a fully discrete phonostage for the IC-based one I've been using for the past few years.

Result: The discrete phonostage sounds clearly better, at a similar price point (GBP1,300 vs. GBP1,200).

I'm going discrete from now on!





I have had opposite results I made both a while back and it took a rather complex transistor Design to match the Performance of my Hybrid OP-Amp Discrete Phono stage.

This hybrid consisted of a casscoded LS312 Diff amp pair driving both inputs of an LT1028 and with a 1K resistor as the source I got better than 90 dB S/N ratio in a Moving Coil gain and over 110dB in Moving magnet. The RIAA Eq Flat to within +/- 0.1dB using standard 1% Metal film resistors hand matched in the RIAA Eq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K2Grey
Probably because one has intrinsic advantages over the other (if I read this thread correctly).

It's like saying that a steel sword is better than an iron sword. Sure, a good iron sword may be better than a badly forged steel sword, but there are still certain intrinsic advantages to using steel instead of iron.
PRECICLY Nothing can be completely define by only one solution and it is the Wise man that comes to Know this
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post #175 of 176
2/20/06 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
I don't think anyone is arguing a discrete amp is ALWAYS better than a opamp. You can screw up anything. The question was really more along the lines of which one has the better potential given an optimal implementation (within a given price tier).
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post #176 of 176
2/20/06 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakked1
I don't think anyone is arguing a discrete amp is ALWAYS better than a opamp. You can screw up anything. The question was really more along the lines of which one has the better potential given an optimal implementation (within a given price tier).
Sorry, I misunderstood as usual.
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