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purchased M-audio LX4 2.1 and need to connect to PC- a baffling situation!

post #1 of 11
1/25/06 at 3:44am
Thread Starter 
I recently received my speakers and amp (Sub) but soon realized a nightmare in hooking it up to my PC. I followed some (apparently wrong and incomplete) internet advice and went to rat shack and bought (3) 1/4" TSR to RCA adaptors, a 1/8th" Y-mini plug to RCA adaptor and another straight mini plug to RCA adaptor along with 2 Monster Ultra THX stereo audio interconnects (RCA). After hooking this all up to the amp I got next to no sound or volume from the R and L channels or from the LFE of the amp.
I had to assume that something was wrong with the new amp. After a conversation with M-Audio tech support, They suggested that I dispense with all of the adaptors and fancy IC's and go out and find an all-in-one cable solution-- a mini plug with dual cable running to (2) 1/4" mono unbalanced plugs then test it on the R and L channels to see if that would take care of the problem. I went down to the local Guitar Center, found an inexpensive all in one cable/IC -exactly as recommended -stereo to mono- unbalanced and took it home. Hooked it up and low and behold-SOUND!
Being a relative noob to the sound world I am competely baffled as to why the earlier configuration did not work. The only thing I can assume is a poor connection with all the adaptors or the TSR plug was not wired/configured with the pos and neg poles as recommended for this amp. The interesting thing was when I had it all hooked up with earlier setup and couldnt get it to work- I tried hooking up another amp (Bose radio of all things) and got perfect sound -albeit without the use of the 1/4" TSR plugs on the ends of the RCA interconnects. Guess that just confirms the problem must have been the 1/4" Rat shack TSR plugs.
So now I have great sound but will need to look into a better quality cable (preferrably without adaptors) to connect the PC to this amp. Incidently, M audio states that this amp will accept either balanced or unbalanced input. Is there really a need or justifyable reason to go to balanced inputs? Also, would I need to go with a custom cable? Off the shelf would be nice as I could try them and compare sound quality with what I have now and return them if needed.
Thanks for reading this wordy post and hope it was clearer than mud...lol.
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post #2 of 11
1/25/06 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvetsteele
So now I have great sound but will need to look into a better quality cable (preferrably without adaptors) to connect the PC to this amp. Incidently, M audio states that this amp will accept either balanced or unbalanced input. Is there really a need or justifyable reason to go to balanced inputs? Also, would I need to go with a custom cable? Off the shelf would be nice as I could try them and compare sound quality with what I have now and return them if needed.
Thanks for reading this wordy post and hope it was clearer than mud...lol.
balanced? no need, its mainly for long runs of cables where noise may be introduced or if say (in my example) your equip has balanced outputs for the main outputs. more then likely there's an instrument amp inside the speaker to convert the signal back to single ended for the amp to use.

custom cable? not necessary you should be able to find a 1/8" -> dual 1/4" mono cable. my music store has cables like this, but i'd get the PA guy to make me one up if i was in your situation. so a guitar centre or similar should be able to provide you with the hook up. although, i'd just enjoy your new kit as it is rather then worry about "cable rolling" at this stage.
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post #3 of 11
1/25/06 at 5:02am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the response Skyscraper, I am going to do just that, use what I have for now and talk to local music shop about making up a cable that is better quality than $8.75 for 1 M run.
I would like to know if a better quality IC would improve listening experience. The audio source is Creative Labs Audigy 2ZS. These speakers sound tremendous to me so far.
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post #4 of 11
1/25/06 at 6:37am
that sounds like the go i build all my own cables but the music store guys really know their stuff when building cables, ive bought from them in the past when i can't be bothered making my own.

difference between cables? hrmm the old do cables make a difference question. i havent heard those m-audio speakers so have no real idea how they resolve and respond to different inputs. i would answer by saying that i think considering your current setup that you may be better off getting that cable made at the shop and directing any more money towards something that will potentially have a greater impact on your system's fidelity like a better soundcard.
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post #5 of 11
1/25/06 at 8:00am
If you aren't a gamer (and maybe even if you are) consider switching to a nicer sound card like an E-MU 0404 or 1212m (since M-Audio speakers are a bit on the bright side, the 1212m would probably be the better choice). Then you can run TRS to TRS balanced and you'll get much better sound from either card. Since you've got a Guitar Center handy, you should be able to pick up the 1212m for $165. As for cables, I really like the Mogami cables also available through GC.
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post #6 of 11
1/25/06 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
Skyskraper, I will check and see if they can make the cable and try to save a little money for now . You make a good argument for upgrading the sound card too before spending too much on cabling.

Jasper994, thanks for the advice on the 1212m and Mogami cables. I know they carry them and can make them to order. If I get the new soundcard, I will be able to run 1/4 to 1/4" TSR balanced and so may not have to custom order. How does the Mogami compare with other high end cabling such as enamel, teflon or dielectric copper or silver/copper wire?
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post #7 of 11
1/26/06 at 1:55am
i firmly believe that mogami/proel/canare stuff is amongst the best stuff you can get. great quality copper, low capacitance and low inductance. to me it does what a cable should do, and dissapear from the sound.
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post #8 of 11
1/26/06 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyskraper
i firmly believe that mogami/proel/canare stuff is amongst the best stuff you can get. great quality copper, low capacitance and low inductance. to me it does what a cable should do, and dissapear from the sound.
I'd have to agree... Speaking of which, my new custom cable made by Edwood uses Canare, I haven't heard any differences between the Mogami (Neglex) and Canare.
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post #9 of 11
1/27/06 at 2:54am
Thread Starter 
I have done some checking on the EMU cards -0404 and 1212m and unfortunately, it doesnt look like they will support a subwoofer for 2.1- which is an integral part of the LX4 system. They only have 2 analog outs and I would need a 3rd, for the LFE channel. Any ideas on another alternative for upgrading sound card?
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post #10 of 11
1/27/06 at 3:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvetsteele
I have done some checking on the EMU cards -0404 and 1212m and unfortunately, it doesnt look like they will support a subwoofer for 2.1- which is an integral part of the LX4 system. They only have 2 analog outs and I would need a 3rd, for the LFE channel. Any ideas on another alternative for upgrading sound card?
They don't have LFE out, but it'll still work with your 2.1 system. It wouldn't work if you decided to add on the 5.1 expansion set.

You would run the L & R connections from the soundcard into the L & R inputs on the subwoofer. The crossovers inside the sub and satellites take care of the rest. It will pass anything from 20khz to 140hz off to the satellites and direct anything below 140hz to the sub. In the same way, the satellites distribute anything above 2.9khz to the tweeter and from 2.9khz down to 140hz goes to the LF driver in the satellite.

The reason there is an LFE input on the sub is that in 5.1 applications there are specific signals that are meant only for the subwoofer. Any sub/satellite combination where the satellites do not produce full range sound must have bass management where signal below a certain frequency is sent to the sub in addition to the LFE signal.

As a side note, be very careful with placing the sub. Bass information is localizable down into the 60hz range.
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post #11 of 11
1/31/06 at 12:11am
Thread Starter 
Jasper, thanks again for all your help! I should have tried connecting without the LFE and would have known what you stated about crossover was true. Guitar center claims the 0404 now has same DAC's as 1212m but that is not entirely true it seems. The 0404 now has 192Khz convertor support (due to updated 1.71 driver) but the A/D convertor is still different spec- PCM 1804 vs. AK 5394A for the 1212m. There are also some other differences in SNR and THD as well as software selectable input/output levels.
I can see the 1212m would be a much better card if you were going to use for recording/mixing music but is it worth paying almost double cost (It seems to be priced at $199 everywhere I have looked)? I guess if it sounds noticeably superior it would be worth it. Also there is a daughter card that will require an extra slot in the case. Is it necessary to use the daughter card just for sending output to my amp?
My final thought on this is how the 1212m would compare with just sending the output from my Audigy 2 ZS via S/PDIF (coaxial) to an external DAC of decent quality and then on to my LX4s' amp. Would this option be much more expensive?
Thanks for all the input!
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