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Any DJ's here? - Page 2

post #16 of 26
1/24/06 at 11:17am
I own a black 1200 mk2, and a black 1210 mk2. I didn't know they made black 1200s, so I thought it was neat. Both have zero click.
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post #17 of 26
1/24/06 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
This sucks. I can't figure out what I should get. I'm trying to be as open-minded about this as possible. I want an audiophile DJ set.

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I like the sound of Stanton carts, but the ones I've tried seem to have pretty bloomy bass. Sounds nice, but not particularly appropriate for classical and acoustic music. I'd recommend something with an advanced stylus shape like Microline, as they track *so* much better.
It seems that ortofons is the cartridge to get when it comes to sound quality, but I think they're for mixing. Shure has the white label, M44-7 and M44G for scratching. Stanton 500 for sratching, Stanton 680 for mixing.

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The LE went for ~$1300 on ebay when it came out. Check www.djdeals.com and www.agiprodj.com for good prices and service.
djdeals.com has them for $1350 free ship. djdeals is also an authorized UREI dealer so you get the warranty through UREI unlike buying from ebay. I'm willing to drop that much for a mixer since I am concerned about sound quality. I think the rane ttm 57sl will cost about the same. It's just the whole mixing vs scratching part. I think I would love mixing, but scratching is probably where I'd have more fun. So that's why I'm leaning towards getting a rane ttm56

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I think the ttm56 is overkill for a begginer. An Allen and Heath Xone: 02 is almost half the price and will do just as well for sound quality and scratchability.
The Xone 02 is US $369.99 on ebay, free ship, from a power seller. I will take your advice on the xone 02. I'm about to buy it right now cause I'm worried it'll be gone. There's only 3 left. The thing that's stoping me is that so many people on the future's producers forum recommends the ttm 56 as the mixer to get.

I don't mean to post an ebay auciton. Is this allowed? I just need help with something.
FP thread
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the xone 02 is dope if you make sure you end up with one that has the P&G faders in it. in early production they ran off ones with old school pcv faders, not the best, as a matter of fact they would bleed within a few hours of skratching. but as for the rest of the mixer, it's top notch. nice eq's and some cool features.
Can you tell if this one has the P&G faders?

Well, it looks like a good buy for a starter. After I mess around for a couple of months, I'll know a whole lot more and spring for an UREI or TTM57.

I think the best thing for me is to go as cheap as I can, but still get decent stuff. Then figure out what's good to upgrade.

I'm thinking about getting 2 mk2s off ebay now cause that could potentially save me $200 on buying both. It looks like used tables go for about $300. The differences between the mk2 and later models is pretty much the pitch click. Then the m5g and GLD have improved tonearm wiring.

Buying two used mk2 and modding them with OL is the plan now.

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The Silver is therefore 1000USD+, the OL1 in stock form (basically an OEM Rega RB250) is around 200USD. The armboard for technics is about 70USD.
Silver seems to be out of the question now. I think I'll get the OL1 with the upgrades you were talking about.

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The "structural modification" entails removing the stock plastic counterweight stub and standard weight then fitting a new metal stub with a counterweight which is attached via hex bolt.
Understood.

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Go for the OL1 tonearm with modded counterweight and external rewiring.
So this would be Tonearm Structural modification + External Rewire for DJ's
105.53 + 63.83 + 59.57 x2 = 456.8 + 75 for the adapter thing = 531 x2 for two TT = $1,063.

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1) if you're just starting out, you can get all the advice you want but you won't know what you really want/need until you have a bit of experience behind the decks. each dj is different and will have different nuances that are impossible to predict, you have to experience them.
That's me. I don't know WTF I want, so I'm starting basic.

I a bit stuck on
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If you were going to buy new, I would get M3Ds or later models over the Mk2s. If you were going to buy used, Mk2s can be had for cheaper but I've seen few used 1200s with tonearms not abused.
There is a m3d without an arm on ebay and it looks like it'll go for cheap. Like $200 shipped. I'm contemplating the idea getting that and modding it with an OL arm...

So here's the current plan

2 used mk2 = $600
1 Xone 02 = $370 (if this is a good buy)
HD25 = $200
JBL = $200... I only need 1 pair, right?
M44G = $130 for 2

$1,500 for now. $500 on records.

UREI 1620 or TTM57 depending on whether I want to mix or scratch. I think that's the major difference. Well, the 57 is some sort of 56 / SSL hybrid. I don't know enough. I'll decide when the 57 comes out.

Then OL arms other carts will come after the new mixer. How's this road plan look? Oh, I forgot. I know there's other stuff I should get like cleaning solutions.
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post #18 of 26
1/24/06 at 5:37pm
Mecc: I hope you're aware that your average mixing/scratching cartridges are hardly good enough to justify a Rega arm upgrade. So I'd assume you can plan to leave at least one one the two tables as is, as long you need a record player for mixing/scratching purposes. Oh, and just btw, Shure and Stanton wouldn't be the only good cartridges to consider for the SL12x0Mkwhatever - you might also want to look into Ortofon's Concorde series.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini
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post #19 of 26
1/25/06 at 1:48am
in all honesty the 1620 is not what id reccomend for a new dj either. id go as far as to say AVOID unless you really know it's what you want.

get something that is easy to use and flexible, my bargain pick of mixers is the Vestax VMC-002. It's cheap enough that isn't a huge investment (~$170) initially for your learning period. It's got all the functions you could want for mixing house and beginning to spin hip hop. its got the nice vestax layout and tactility of controls for both house and hip hop. it's got the awesome vestax sound (that can't be beat unless you spend a _LOT_ more), and finally you can upgrade the xfader to vestax's PCV fader from the 005 007's if you want (albeit for ~$70).

you simply can't beat the vestax VMC range for low end mixers. nothing comes near them in terms of sound, build and features.

second hand 1200's are the way to go. doesnt matter if theyre m3d's mk2's mk3's etc whatever. just get a pair thats in good condition aesthetically and mechanically. that means don't buy a pair that is missing a tone arm or is in anyway damaged. then spend however much it costs in your area (it varies greatly depending on geographical area) to get a service with calibration etc (removing that god damn quartz lock)

for cartridges, the shure m44's both sound good and hold well theyre a good choice for a first cartridge regardless of whether you're playing house or hip hop. the 680's sound great but are not as durable as the others so should only be considered once you've settled in to a house groove. the stanton 500's are junk which i would avoid at all costs unless you want your records to sound like fuzz in a short period of time. ortofon's are great, i personally use ortofon scratch's (yes for non hiphop/scratch mixing) due to their longevity and high output (we usually fly through needles once every 6 weeks otherwise). i've grown fond of the ortofon electro sound of late, theyre not as durable as the scratch's but i dont mix as much vinyl these days. _WARNING_ do NOT NOT NOT get concorde's ever, they are overpriced and wear out in short periods of times (where the metal collar bonds on to the cartridge body). i've had them fall apart on me within 9 months. with ortofon's get the OM series, using the stylus alignment guage it'll be perfectly setup on a standard headshell and are a lot cheaper. my OM cartridge bodies are four years old and showing absolutely NO signs of age at all.

cans, get something indestructable or with easily replaceable parts and good warranty. for me this means HD25's or K181's. i use hfi 500dj1's, but i'm not sure i'd reccomend them a new dj. theyre a finely tuned instrument that a lot of people have difficulty using, but once u get used to them, you can't use anything else
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post #20 of 26
1/25/06 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyskraper
_WARNING_ do NOT NOT NOT get concorde's ever, they are overpriced and wear out in short periods of times (where the metal collar bonds on to the cartridge body). i've had them fall apart on me within 9 months.
Oh, that's bad news (new for me, at least...) - I don't remember the Concordes to break that easily in former days...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini
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post #21 of 26
1/26/06 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lini
Oh, that's bad news (new for me, at least...) - I don't remember the Concordes to break that easily in former days...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini



well.....they are really good...and sound awesome....


but they wear out the records and themselves much faster in the process
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post #22 of 26
1/26/06 at 2:01am
they shouldnt wear the records out if theyre setup correctly, i find ortofons do some of the least damage on records. that said im not happy with the geometry of the concorde body. always buy the ortofon OM's theyre so much better.
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post #23 of 26
1/26/06 at 4:51am
Thread Starter 
If you think about it, the Concorde pack comes with two styluses and the OM comes with one. Which makes them roughly the "same" price.

Even though I said I'd get things in two weeks, I've already dropped about 1k on my "starter" set. I bought the used set off of a DJ (surprise) on EBAY for around $850. S&H was 20% of the total!~ I'm getting

2 used 1200mk2
2 used ortofon nightclub carts + needles
1 used Pioneer DJM 300
1 used Grundorf DTTR-D case
25 LP

I also purchased two Ortofon "qbert" styluses to scratch with. Just gotta buy hd25's, and I guess I'll get the JBL control 1. Get more records. I'm wondering if I should invest in a cleaning solution. I read that people just use alcohol mixed with distilled water and wipe with lint free cloth. Upgrade the mixer down the road and replace the arms with modded OL's...

The OL tonearm upgrade is bugging me.
Check out this article.

It says not to use elliptical carts with the straight arm, but on the bottom under "a few final notes", it states "1. Were discussing Scratch DJ straight pivoted underhung tonearms, not linear tracking straight tonearms nor straight tonearms with proper overhang and the offset angle in the headshell."'

Does the OL/RB250 mod arm fit into the same catagory as the Stratch DJ arm?

Read this Thread

This thread

and this long thread

From what I'm picking up, elliptical needles sounds better than spherical and wears the record less, but I'd want to use an OM cart with a spherical stylus on a straight arm. You don't want to use an elliptical stylus for scratching which is why I bought the qbert styluses.

Any experts on the regamod want to chime in on which cartridge you should and shouldn't use?

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then spend however much it costs in your area (it varies greatly depending on geographical area) to get a service with calibration etc (removing that god damn quartz lock)
Is there a specific place for this? Like with certified Technics people? There's an audio shop not to far from where I live that has lots of vintage receivers, headphones, and misc items. The owner does have a solding iron and a small table where it looks like he does repairs on. I guess I could go there and ask, but I think he'd try to swindle me. Would I be able to calibrate it myself using the manual?

Now that I think about it... I should buy some sort of stand or table to put the TTs on. I guess a keyboard stand should do the trick. I'm always forgetting something.
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post #24 of 26
1/26/06 at 7:51am
you got a good deal. now relax and just get mixing, you'll realise that a tonearm upgrade is amongst the absolute last things you need.

invest some money in a spirit target level and stylus alignment guage, should only cost a few pennies and will help you get your decks setup.

isopropyl alcohol and a nice lint free no static cloth is a great way to clean your records. there are so many different methods of cleaning that get debated ad nauseum around the net. in 10 years of use over thousands of records and more hours behind the decks then i care to remember, isopropyl alcohol and a good cloth has worked flawlessly for me.

the rega/ol arms have proper geometry in terms of length and headshell angle. its just the stanton/vestax/etc etc straight arms are junk that attempt to solve a problem with the marketing department rather then with good engineering.

ellipticals sound better but track poorer, mainly on the back cue. they wear less, but again thats relying on correct setup.

service and calibration can be done at a regular technics/panasonic service centre but what i'd do is ask the guys at your local record store where they take their decks. i guarantee theyve all had to get them worked on at some point and there are a lot of techs like us who go out of our way to setup the gear properly and ensure maximum dj operability rather then just putting it in spec. at the same time you should get the cables replaced (its a matter of time before they fail) and get the ground wire removed, a good tech will do it for you.

a keyboard stand will work nicely with your case, just make sure your surface ends up being level
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post #25 of 26
1/26/06 at 7:37pm
Agreed about the "straight arm" question. This is a confusing subject but basically tonearm design swung back toward straight tonearms in the early 80's. The Technics arm design dates from a time when all tonearms were s or j shaped. There are famous designs in both varieties that are great tonearms, the shape is secondary to the design and construction. In the case of the Technics the reason it is 2nd rate in comparison to later arms like the Rega is that it's constuction is relatively poor, having too many joints and rubber grommets used between the various parts which compromise sound quality.

The "straight arm" referred to in these links is a different design altogether and would cause damage to records if used with the wrong type of cartridge as the geometry will be wrong and thus wear the record faster.

Using the Technics for both scratch mixing and as your sole deck for just listening is going to involve compromises. You just need to work out which ones you can live with. If sound quality is the most important thing for you the OL arm upgrade will give you the best results.

You will need to choose a cartridge based on what you intend to do most of. The more expensive Stanton's are a good compromise because you can use a cheaper stylus for mixing and a more expensive one for playback interchanging them without having to remove the cartridge which is the main drawback of an arm with a fixed headshell like the Rega/OL. However what you loose in convenience you gain in sound quality as I mentioned.

Obviously scratching with your records is going to wear your stylus and records out more quickly than just playing them. Touching the playing surface at all is not good for sound quality as you leave all kinds of greasy residues from your hands. You could wear white gloves and keep it oldskool I guess!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyskraper
isopropyl alcohol and a nice lint free no static cloth is a great way to clean your records.
I wouldn't trust Isopropyl alcohol as it is known to damage your records. Again by how much is debateable but why risk it. Better to use a commercial cleaner like Nitty Gritty solution. And it's going to be worth spending a few hundred bucks on a vacuum cleaning machine as soon as you can afford it as this is by far the best way to preserve your records.

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Originally Posted by skyskraper
a keyboard stand will work nicely with your case, just make sure your surface ends up being level
It depends on your floor. If it's concrete then any light but solid table is just fine. If you have suspended floorboards though a wall shelf is a much better option. As I mentioned earlier there are many companies which have made wall shelves specifically for turntables and these turn up on ebay frequently. Look for Target, Sound Organisation, Apollo, Partington...

Have fun with your new decks.
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post #26 of 26
1/27/06 at 12:55am
see cleaning is so subjective, ive used it for a decade with no ill effects. similarly i have plenty of friends who have used it for twice as long with no ill effects either. yet other people will disagree, i can only advise based on my experience. all the damage that has occured on my records is due to either dead stylii, poor balance/setup, or operator error (poor storage, drunken heavy handedness etc etc etc).

agreed on the playing surface. i much preffer a proper table to keyboard stand setup. but it's a cheap and easy way of getting started considering he already has the coffin that will just sit on top. i have a wooden floor in my room, great for general listening but horrible for isolation and levelness. i put down a layer of rubber matting (roof waterproofing type stuff) underneath some concrete pavers, then a thin layer of high density foam, then marble tiles on top. THEN my custom built hardwood table (which is nothing special, just the width/height/depth that i want and some storage for records underneath)
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