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Thoughts On My Budget System (Sony Reciever and Fluance Speakers) - Page 4

post #46 of 84
1/17/06 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
What are the advantages of getting bookshelf speakers + stands instead of floorstanders. I think I'd end up losing some of the bottom end, and no one has really suggested any specific bookshelf speakers, except the Paradigm Atoms which only go to 70Hz. Also, stands will probably cost me around $50 (for decent ones) and I'd rather put that money towards speakers.
My thought was that you might get better quality sound for the same cost since there are less parts in, and less complications in designing, a two-way bookshelf. Companies like Paradigm and NHT also manufacture a full line of speakers and for the most part are well regarded in the audio community. Its not that you cannot get quality from manufacturers with less of a history behind them, its just involves some additional risks in trying to sort the good from the not so good.

My belief is that good sound is not derived just from the sum of the parts. Its also a product of knowledge. I have heard bookshelf speakers that would blow your mind in terms of sound quality. Granted they were somewhat expensive, but the concept still holds true at any given budget. You should buy what you like, but do not dismiss something based purely on its specs. or size. Remember, good, clean bass notes are very hard to reproduce well, and much more than just the speakers are involved in how those notes reproduce.
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post #47 of 84
1/17/06 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
What are the advantages of getting bookshelf speakers + stands instead of floorstanders. I think I'd end up losing some of the bottom end, and no one has really suggested any specific bookshelf speakers, except the Paradigm Atoms which only go to 70Hz. Also, stands will probably cost me around $50 (for decent ones) and I'd rather put that money towards speakers.
There's more to good speakers than frequency extension. 70Hz-15kHz with flat response is much more listenable than 20Hz-20kHz with big spikes & dips.

Best thing is to listen to as many speakers as possible and buy what you like (that you can afford), specs don't tell you much. I have Paradigm Mini-Monitors, which I preferred to a pair of Paradigm floorstanders from the same line.

Other companies that make good, affordable bookshelves are NHT, PSB, and Axiom, but the Infinity Primus 150 that Sonick mentioned would certainly be worth a listen (another Harman company). You might be able to find a shop that has them in the same room as the JBL floorstanders you were looking at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
Also, stands will probably cost me around $50 (for decent ones) and I'd rather put that money towards speakers.
Can't blame you there. You can always build stands...easy to make them good & solid, but hard to make them look good (or at least it's a lot more work).
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post #48 of 84
1/17/06 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
I guess I'm still not being sold on bookshelf speakers. I do like a bit of bass (Super.fi 5EB's are my headphones of choice), so it doesnt' seem like I'd be satisfied with 60-70Hz. I think 40Hz floorstanders would go about as low as my cheap sub, so I think I'd be pretty happy with them.

I guess I'll check out some of the other brands mentioned, but I don't really know of anywhere to listen to good speakers. I'll have to check out Best Buy/Ultimate Electronic/Circuit City/etc. and see if I can demo any of the brands mentioned (probably only Infinity, Polk, Klipsch, JBL). I'm guessing they'll have their bookshelf speakers hooked up with a sub, so I'll have to try to get a listen with the sub off. Unless bookshelf speakers really wow me in a demo, I think I'm still leaning towards the better low end response of the JBL floorstanders.
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post #49 of 84
1/17/06 at 5:14pm
Dude, you really need to go listen to some speakers. Crack the phone book and look for a boutique audio store. Listen to both monitors and floorstanders. Those specs you're looking at really don't mean anything if hate the way they sound. Also, go to ebay and sort by your zipcode....if you see a powerseller of nice stuff, it's probably a store and you can go check the stuff out. If you give them a chance, i think you'll enjoy monitors more, especially since you'll be listening in a small room. Then you can upgrade to a great big sub and rattle the walls all you want.
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post #50 of 84
1/17/06 at 6:53pm
i'm going to jump on the bookshelf bandwagon. i think you have preconceived notions about FR, without actually listening to what you can get from even a 5.75" woofer + bass reflex port.

in fact, if you're a basshead, you might even prefer a standmount, as they'll generally have more of a mid-bass hump than a floorstander in the same line. you will get that visceral impact that you're looking for, and you'll get deep enough bass for it to be satisfying.

and in such a small space, you really won't be able to experience the lowest end of the spectrum in any sort of satisfying way, simply because of the size of the soundwaves versus the limitations of your room.

not to mention, you'll probably get poorer dynamics and imaging than you would in monitors of the same price. and the quality of construction/components will be severely compromised in a tower speaker.

i just think you're giving way too much weight to FR.
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post #51 of 84
1/17/06 at 7:47pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I was really set on floorstanding speakers, so I'm having a bit of a hard time believing that a 12" bookshelf speaker will sound better (especially in the low end) than a 3 foot tall, 3-way tower with a larger woofer, and better FR measurements.

I haven't had any luck finding any local dealers (Google, eBay) but I'm sure I could find a phone book someday and look them up. I think the only thing that could sway me from getting floorstanders would be to hear some really impressive bookshelf speakers.

Also, I was hoping to get something that I could eventually move into a larger area and still have it sound good (without a sub, if possible), maybe even expand it into a surround sound setup.
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post #52 of 84
1/17/06 at 8:40pm
First of all, it takes serious $$$ and wattage to get down to 20Hz. There're many ultra-expensive floorstanding speakers that can't dig deep down to 20Hz. And that's when a serious powered sub comes in.

At the same time, a well-designed monitor can go down to below 50Hz (or lower) and covered vast majority of musical content. The room and the speakers' placement also play important parts in how the speaker will sound. Given the same price, I agree a floorstanding speaker will usually go lower than a bookshelf speaker, the smaller speaker will make up the lower frequencies with better refinements to the overall sound.

If you want a bookshelf speaker that can cover lower frequencies and be able to expand into a full surround sound system, check out the Energy Connoisseur C-3. It's currently available at 50% off from Audio Advisor.
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post #53 of 84
1/17/06 at 10:10pm
Thread Starter 
I just moved my RCA 12" 200 watt Subwoofer into my 10' x 6' den

I have 2 of the satellite speakers from my Panasonic HTIB hooked up to the MAIN speaker terminals of my Marantz, with the sub is connected to the REMOTE speaker terminals. And there is A LOT of bass!!!!

But for some reason or another it sounds tighter than where it was in my bedroom (probably because it's not in a corner, and I put my safe on top of it). Of course it's still quite loose, and I'm sure any of you would not even be able to stand how it sounds

For now I'm kind of enjoying this setup, but I'd still like to get new speakers for my birthday (February) and retire the sub forever.

Those bookshelfs you linked look pretty interesting, and it seems that they can handle low frequencies pretty well, but I'm still not willing to sacrifice bass for overall sound quality. Even if it is the best sounding speaker ever, if it doesn't have any bass I don't want it. If it has nice punchy bass, but the midrange is a little off I think I'd be able to put up with it (I have no hi-end experience).
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post #54 of 84
1/17/06 at 11:10pm
No offense, but from reading your post, it dosent really look like your interested in hi-fi audio. Just buy a Sony BoomBox with GroovalizerTM super bass and be done with it..
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post #55 of 84
1/17/06 at 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW
No offense, but from reading your post, it dosent really look like your interested in hi-fi audio. Just buy a Sony BoomBox with GroovalizerTM super bass and be done with it..
I'd go easy on him. I remember starting out in audio thinking the same way. We all go through our evolutionary stages. Personally I think it would be silly not to go past the Wharfedale 9.3's and T-Amp if I were to start out again (instead of wasting money on boom box systems). But he has a different aim and purpose and probably its good for him to be making these decisions as he's exploring the audio possibilities.
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post #56 of 84
1/17/06 at 11:45pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I guess I'm glad I didn't buy any $400 bookshelf speakers yet

I'm absolutely sure that my idea of a reasonable amount to spend on speakers is no where near what some people around here think. That's why I'm looking to get rid of my super loose sub, and replace it with something that will sound better. I'm also sure that my idea of great sound is probably a lot different than some others. I want to get something that sounds good, but I have no desire to spend hundreds of dollars on speakers, only to find that I also need a $300 sub to make the most of them. I do like bass, and I want some speakers that will satisfy me while I listen to my favorite Rap music (something I'm sure a lot of people here can't even stand).

EDIT: I don't think I'm gonna be getting a T-Amp because I got a vintage Marantz from my parents that should be a good enough reciever. Are the Wharfedale's (do you mean 8.3 or 9.3?) better than the JBL's I was looking at?
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post #57 of 84
1/18/06 at 11:15am
You might want to go to madisound.com and look at some of the inepensive kits. If you can put one together, or if necessary pay someone to, you might get your best bang for your buck with one.

Also, if you don't mind used, speaking of bang-for-buck, look at e-bay through the advanced search function in order to find something close and ask about local pickup to save shipping.
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post #58 of 84
1/18/06 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
I'm absolutely sure that my idea of a reasonable amount to spend on speakers is no where near what some people around here think. That's why I'm looking to get rid of my super loose sub, and replace it with something that will sound better.
$250 towers will NOT sound better than your "super loose" sub, they will only poorly reproduce more of the frequency spectrum.

Quote:
I do like bass, and I want some speakers that will satisfy me while I listen to my favorite Rap music (something I'm sure a lot of people here can't even stand).
Rap isn't characterized by deep bass so much as loud mid-bass, and for that, the energy C-3 linked to by soundboy will satisfy you... believe me.

for $250, they are a FANTASTIC value, and will get you as deep as you're looking for (but don't realize). they will also last you a long while before you feel the need to upgrade.

they have a 6.5" woofer and a front-firing port... they will do what you're looking for.

but please, go audition a pair of monitors of similar size (or the energies themselves, if possible), and you will find this out for yourself.

please trust me when i say the following:

1) deep bass is NOT what you're looking for... LOUD bass is.
2) 20-30hz bass will be essentially LOST in your small room.
3) you will get more for your money with monitors than towers.

Quote:
EDIT: I don't think I'm gonna be getting a T-Amp because I got a vintage Marantz from my parents that should be a good enough reciever.
this is a good decision. the T-Amp does not do bass very well, and your Marantz is a great little jewel of serendipity.
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post #59 of 84
1/18/06 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW
No offense, but from reading your post, it dosent really look like your interested in hi-fi audio. Just buy a Sony BoomBox with GroovalizerTM super bass and be done with it..
I was thinking that myself.
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post #60 of 84
1/18/06 at 10:30pm
Thread Starter 
I guess there's just no tolerance for people who don't have unlimited budgets and listen to classical music.

Anyways, I think I'm done with this debate, and if I actually do get speakers in the near future it will be the JBL E60's.
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