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Newb question: Will Braiding Stranded Cable = Benefit?

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I was reading up on Litz Branding and the site (http://www.chimeralabs.com/diy_braid.html) said the following:

Quote:
There is an optimum type of wire for braiding audio Litz wire. Solid core wire is the only type that should be used. Stranded wire defeats or offsets the benefits of Litz construction. Stranded wire is nothing more than a number of bare conductors that are spiral twisted to form the conductor. This type of wire construction has phase anomalies and mechanical resonance that severely degrades audio signal transmission. Litz braiding a poor conductor is an exercise in futility.
However, looking through the DIY build your own interconnects and DIY Gallery, I could have sworn I saw people branding stranded wire. So is there any benefit or would just twising the wires end up with the same sound quality?

FYI: I am looking at building some interconnects and happen to have stranded 24 AWG Copper Plated Silver available as well as a good deal of solid copper Cat6.

Thanks as usual!
post #2 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA8
I was reading up on Litz Branding and the site (http://www.chimeralabs.com/diy_braid.html) said the following:



However, looking through the DIY build your own interconnects and DIY Gallery, I could have sworn I saw people branding stranded wire. So is there any benefit or would just twising the wires end up with the same sound quality?

FYI: I am looking at building some interconnects and happen to have stranded 24 AWG Copper Plated Silver available as well as a good deal of solid copper Cat6.

Thanks as usual!
Well, lets see... braiding some solid core wire gives you... hmmm, stranded wire? Or is it that you are braiding insulated (Teflon, of course) solid core wire, so that doesn't suffer from "phase anomalies and mechanical resonance that severely degrades audio signal transmission"? Insulated or not, I don't buy claims of any difference (audible or measureable) in the phase anomoly department. Mechanical resonance? Whatever. I've dealt with Dennis (Chimera Labs) before and he's a nice guy; however, when I read blanket claims as above, the BS meter starts in.

Try making a pair with each and see if you hear any difference.
post #3 of 31
Mostly these sorts of reasoning about wire construction are total psuedo-scientific rubbish. Lots of grand sounding phrases with words that are culled from physics, but no underlying science. Indeed no reason at all to belive that any are true.

Quote:
This type of wire construction has phase anomalies and mechanical resonance that severely degrades audio signal transmission.
Really? So these have been measured? These guys make a testable physical statement. The reality is that at audio frequencies this is all total BS. Mechanical resonances that degrade audio? - Oh please. What mechanisms do they suggest for this to work? Magnetostriction? Mechanical strain changing resistance? Sorry guys, it just doesn't happen. Usually they eventually invoke quantum effects, at which point they are really showing desperate ignorance. QED is vastly harder than these guys even have an inkling.

Litz construction is harder than most people think (it is not simple braiding - it requires a very specific sort of braiding where each conductor spends equal amounts of length at the surface of the conductor, and also spends time on the inside of the braid.)

Good cable? Seriously, put a reasonable amount of copper in it, keep the capacitance down, but don't use weird braiding techniques that put the inductance up. There are some arguments for better dielectrics - so teflon is nice, foamed teflon even better. For headphones, construction to avoid transmission of mechnical noise is as important - so don't make then stiff, and if you are braiding use a noise absorbing filler - like cotton, and don't wrap them in a tight stiff casing.
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan
Mostly these sorts of reasoning about wire construction are total psuedo-scientific rubbish. Lots of grand sounding phrases with words that are culled from physics, but no underlying science. Indeed no reason at all to belive that any are true.
This man speaks the truth. Believe none of this rubbish.
post #5 of 31
Thread Starter 
Thanks
post #6 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan
Mostly these sorts of reasoning about wire construction are total psuedo-scientific rubbish.

but but the sound stage but but the warmth but but but the opening up of the treble but but the improved definition of the bass
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan
Usually they eventually invoke quantum effects, at which point they are really showing desperate ignorance.
But... but... what about my quantum settling theories? What else could explain fuse directionality?
post #8 of 31
Wodgy, the compression in that pic is terrible, not professional at all. In my book, that makes it lose a lot of credibility.
post #9 of 31
By braiding the wire you causing the wave functions of any tunneling electrons to collapse so that the electrons are forced back into classical potential energy boundries. This allows for more delocalized bonds, smoother band gaps, and therefore better transmitted audio signal. Seriously, what did they teach you in your quantum physics and physical chemistry classes??

doesn't everyone know this? I thought it was pretty common knowledge.....
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve87
By braiding the wire you causing the wave functions of any tunneling electrons to collapse so that the electrons are forced back into classical potential energy boundries. This allows for more delocalized bonds, smoother band gaps, and therefore better transmitted audio signal. Seriously, what did they teach you in your quantum physics and physical chemistry classes??

doesn't everyone know this? I thought it was pretty common knowledge.....
But doesn't collapsing the wave function remove the Schrödinger uncertainty? Doesn't that make the music sound more "dead", less organic, more digital?
post #11 of 31
Quote:
By braiding the wire you causing the wave functions of any tunneling electrons to collapse so that the electrons are forced back into classical potential energy boundries. This allows for more delocalized bonds, smoother band gaps, and therefore better transmitted audio signal.


One day we should run a thread as a contest to find the best psuedo-scientific drivel. I like this one.

I counted (without really trying)

Quantum references: 3
Semiconductor physics: 1
Psuedo-science: 1
Random jargon: 2
Leaps of logic: 3

For a total score of 10. Very good!!!
post #12 of 31
I braid my interconnects simply because I think they look nice. All the other reasons are hocus-pocus to me.
post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve87
By braiding the wire you causing the wave functions of any tunneling electrons to collapse so that the electrons are forced back into classical potential energy boundries. This allows for more delocalized bonds, smoother band gaps, and therefore better transmitted audio signal. Seriously, what did they teach you in your quantum physics and physical chemistry classes??

doesn't everyone know this? I thought it was pretty common knowledge.....
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wodgy
But doesn't collapsing the wave function remove the Schrödinger uncertainty? Doesn't that make the music sound more "dead", less organic, more digital?
LITZ BRAID OR THIS CAT might BE DEAD
post #15 of 31
but we just observed the cat so its wave functions must have collapsed...
HAH! take THAT you cat-murdering litz-braiders
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