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ok.. now i know im crazy. - Page 3

post #31 of 35
12/15/05 at 12:57am
it is very possible that it is a placebo effect. I don't think most people realize how powerful this effect is, myself included. A weird eye opener for me was listenning to my speaker system with my eyes opened, closed, and focusing on various parts of the room rather than the space between the speaker. Keeping my head in the same position, I had very different perceptions of imaging depending on where my eyes were. If they shifted towards the ground the singers image would be more diffuse and large. If my eyes where looking at the position where the singer ought to be standing, the image was suddenly a lot sharper and defined. The instant my eyes moved, something in my brain changed the way the sound was perceived.
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post #32 of 35
12/15/05 at 2:38am
Thread Starter 
With all do respect, you can't honestly compare a speaker listening experiance to a headphone one. Apples and oranges. Anyways it's not that subtle. Which is part of the disbelief and shock of the whole thing. Im very skeptical myself of such oddities. Maybe there's a slight differnce in impedance or somthing weird with each jack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pne
it is very possible that it is a placebo effect. I don't think most people realize how powerful this effect is, myself included. A weird eye opener for me was listenning to my speaker system with my eyes opened, closed, and focusing on various parts of the room rather than the space between the speaker. Keeping my head in the same position, I had very different perceptions of imaging depending on where my eyes were. If they shifted towards the ground the singers image would be more diffuse and large. If my eyes where looking at the position where the singer ought to be standing, the image was suddenly a lot sharper and defined. The instant my eyes moved, something in my brain changed the way the sound was perceived.
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post #33 of 35
12/15/05 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wodgy
A guy who just spent $200 on the Bedini Ultra Clarifier might not be the most objective opinion on whether it makes a difference, or by how much. A guy who just spent $9000 on speakers might not be the most objective source on whether they sound good off-axis (there's currently a good example of that running over at Audiogon, with owners of a very expensive speaker coming out of the woodwork rabidly denying something that's easily audible to an independent listener).
So what would be a better objective opinion? Someone who has never heard it?
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post #34 of 35
12/15/05 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungrych
So what would be a better objective opinion? Someone who has never heard it?
Some ideas:
- someone who doesn't manufacture it
- someone who doesn't sell it
- someone who didn't just spend X$ on it.

We're not talking about the Taj Mahal here. We're talking about a 1/4inch jack versus a 1/8th inch jack with an adapter. One extra contact point. It's not even a cable. People who overemphasize the differences from small things like this just contribute to the neurosis prevalent in this hobby.

For all we know, there could be an actual difference between the two output jacks. Perhaps a difference in the output resistance. That would explain it. The single extra contact point does not explain it.

Before you write me off as some objectivist crank, I *have* tried cables. I've also built several cables (and amps) of my own. Cables make a small difference, but it isn't the night and day difference you see people touting. That's why I'm very skeptical of a single contact point making any difference at all. It's never happened before in my experience. On the other hand, people making a lot of noise about things that don't make any difference at all happens all the time in this hobby.
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post #35 of 35
12/15/05 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wodgy
Some ideas:
- someone who doesn't manufacture it
- someone who doesn't sell it
- someone who didn't just spend X$ on it.

.....

We'll I can agree with the first two somewhat. I would not discount their opinion entirely but I would keep their relationship with the product in mind.

As for the third, if you go with that then you have to discount almost all of the impressions and reviews by anyone other than professional reviewers who receive samples for review. I think in that case you are limiting yourself very severely in the information available to you. I have a group of people whose audio opinions I have come to trust over the years (not all of whom I agree with all of the time either) and in fact most of them are not professional reviewers and buy the gear they talk about just like me. Quite a few of them post on this very board.

I do agree that you have to worry about the fan-boy syndrome, but that is fairly easy to spot and their impressions can be treated as appropriate. From what I have seen there is no magic dollar cutoff point where the fanboy syndrome seems to start or stop. JMO.
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