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Another HF-1 on the "Black Market" - Page 3

post #31 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF
Yeah - but thats what makes our economy strong.
Oh I thought that occurred from our sales of "Made in China" American Flags?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF
Another double negative:
Microsoft Works
Military Intelligence
Boze: Better Sound


Those are great. I don't know why that first one's never dawned on me.
post #32 of 165
It's clear the seller is not aiming at small profit. The amount of time it takes to write an ad like that, take such pictures, to emphasize the signature, I would say top dollar is expected.

More importantly WRT head-fi, the motive of the seller is clear from the words - to profit off of the personal favor of Mr. Grado, in autographing the merchandise. The ethical judgement is left up to every person for himself.

But it should be accepted that the person who went to great lengths to personallize the product, in design and personal comments, did not do so as a monetary benefit for the the buyer.

It's like a philanthropist giving me a college scholarship and car on the basis, assumption, and expectation that I value education and his help will allow me to do what I am devoted to and could not have done otherwise.

If I go and sell his scholarship and car to the highest bidder, flaunting that both the check and car are personalized by him and have his autograph...
post #33 of 165
while the auction may perhaps be viewed by some to be in poor taste, the seller has done *nothing* wrong.
post #34 of 165

My Thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssingh0
It's like a philanthropist giving me a college scholarship and car on the basis, assumption, and expectation that I value education and his help will allow me to do what I am devoted to and could not have done otherwise.

If I go and sell his scholarship and car to the highest bidder, flaunting that both the check and car are personalized by him and have his autograph...
I didn't want to get involved in this mess but I must point out how flawed the above analogy is. First of all John Grado never "gave" us the headphones - he sold it to us via Todd, and John and Todd both received their money in exchange for the product (Head-Fi also received a $25 donation per headphone, which was paid to Head-Fi regardless of future usage of the HF-1). Yes, John Grado created 450 headphones as a tribute to Head-Fi's dedication to the headphone culture (and probably for helping his business grow and expand, even if via proxy word-of-mouth). We didn't receive the headphones as a gift for our excellent achievements and efforts, as the analogy attempts to falsely link; we purchased a product and Head-Fi received a donation based on that purchase regardless of future sales of said product. Are we planning to assault everyone who sells a product for more than its original MSRP - let's start with those that sell the $400 HP-1000 for $1000+, the R10 for who-knows-what, the L3000 for $2000+ (which was available in Japan for less than $1400) and the K1000 (which was once available for $325 from HeadRoom and now sells for over $600). There are plenty more instances of this - people want a desired, reputable product that's no longer available and are willing (and grateful for the opportunity) to pay for this as the availability was decreased. I understand and empathize with those who feel that the HF-1 is special - it was a tremendous gesture on the part of John Grado and I am very grateful for the opportunity. I will never sell mine and I was planning to send it as a gift to my father (a rabid headphone enthusiast himself) but he is currently too ill to enjoy it. I don't see myself ever selling the HF-1, but I may decide to do so in several years depending on my situation - I'm sure its value will increase and I certainly won't ask for "exactly $206 because that's I paid for it" and I wouldn't expect anyone else to ask for "exactly $400 for my HP-1000 because that's what I paid" either. Yes the HF-1 is special and I'm glad to have been given the opportunity to purchase it but I paid for it and I can do with it as I please (though I do intend to keep it and pass it on to my kids as a headphone heirloom). This whole subject is growing tiresome and it seems the debate will never cease - I just cannot understand why others care what folks do with their property, especially when sales of "higher-than-MSRP-headphones" like the HP-1000 continue unchallenged - at least be consistent with your ire! I cannot understand the need to judge others on morals and ethics that not everyone shares and others hypocritically advocate in the face of similar violations. Let’s agree to disagree and say c’est la vie – man I’m rockin’ some Dire Straits with my K271 at work; we’re all fortunate indeed to enjoy such fine audio reproduction. We’re all here because we have a strong passion for music – let’s not forget that powerful (and bonding) fact. Let's close this topic please.
post #35 of 165
I have to agree....someone can sell their single pair for whatever they want.

If they are selling multiple pairs somehow....than I'll assume something "unethical" is going on.
post #36 of 165
Freedom and Freemarkets! Any attempt to curtail either creates distortions in economies and societies. This debate has been had and resolved by history already and I am quite supprised to hear this communist shtick on these boards.

100% of the builders that we buy from are talented guys who love sound and can make a buck from what they love. Dont think for a moment that if they had to do it for free that they would. John Grado didnt donate these cans to the community he sold it to us for a small profit. Any reduction in profit was justifiby because of the buzz and good P.R. generated by the sale which would have cost twice as much by traditional methods.

Everytime one of those cans are resold they multiply there value to everyone. Someone profits by the resale after enjoying them, some one new gets to own/enjoy/resell a limited run product that is no longer in production. What the hell is the complaint again because I just dont get it.
post #37 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF
Definately not mine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Grado-HF-1-365-l...QQcmdZViewItem

Capitalism at its "best".
It would be even better if consumers took a stand and didn't buy into this.
post #38 of 165
Quote:
We didn't receive the headphones as a gift for our excellent achievements and efforts, as the analogy attempts to falsely link;
the analogy is saying that he can sell it at a higher price and still sell out. He's doing a favor to those who will especially value his product. If $25 didn't go to head-fi, they still would have sold out. If he had not personally autographed every one, they still would have sold out.

The issue is are we trying to take advantage of things done out of good will, when they were not intended as such. Or are we avoiding recognizing these as favors by nitpicking phrases, and philosophizing about profit and capitalist markets.

You think he would go on writing a message and signing each one just "probably for helping his business grow and expand, even if via proxy word-of-mouth." Advertising is not directed at those among whom there's already solid reputation and brand familiarity. From the POV of advertising or profit, or "capitalism" this does not make sense.

Neither is the issue selling above MSRP. The issue is the wording of the ad.
post #39 of 165
I don't understand the facination with this...He's selling something that is his. Does he have to sell it on Head-Fi? It's not like their is a clause stating that you must keep it for one year before you sell and then even if you do it must be to a member of head-fi...
post #40 of 165
Well the bottom line is that it's one more HF-1 that could have gone to someone who would appreciate/use it and could use a nice headphone on a $200 budget. Instead, it's probably going to someone with enough money to add another rare headphone to their collection. I think John Grado was nice enough to go out of his way to make these for us so that we could buy them on the cheap and get some great sound out of them, all the while getting a unique product and helping out Head-Fi. Instead, we're shuffling around money like they're collector's items.

Bottom line, I don't agree with this auction. He's not doing anything illegal or wrong. There's no binding agreement to keep your HF-1's when you buy them, but you're basically throwing John's nice offer back in his face by selling them for profit.
post #41 of 165
It seems as if the auction has been pulled. we could only wonder why.
post #42 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD1032
Well the bottom line is that it's one more HF-1 that could have gone to someone who would appreciate/use it and could use a nice headphone on a $200 budget. Instead, it's probably going to someone with enough money to add another rare headphone to their collection. I think John Grado was nice enough to go out of his way to make these for us so that we could buy them on the cheap and get some great sound out of them, all the while getting a unique product and helping out Head-Fi. Instead, we're shuffling around money like they're collector's items.

Bottom line, I don't agree with this auction. He's not doing anything illegal or wrong. There's no binding agreement to keep your HF-1's when you buy them, but you're basically throwing John's nice offer back in his face by selling them for profit.
I see your point, but I just don't agree...If someone came and offered you $500 for your HF-1 (assuming you have a set)...would you take it? or would you wonder what John Grado would think of you? I'm not trying to single you out, just speaking in generalizations. If he wants to sell it and someone is willing to buy it, then the more power to him. Obviously it was found by someone from head-fi so if a head-fier wants them, they can make a bid too. You're really limiting your auction exposure to list it just on the FS forum here. Of course everyone is going to have differing views, I'm not trying to convert you to mine or anything, but I can't wrap my head around why people seem to get all bent out of shape over it...
post #43 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD1032
Bottom line, I don't agree with this auction. He's not doing anything illegal or wrong. There's no binding agreement to keep your HF-1's when you buy them, but you're basically throwing John's nice offer back in his face by selling them for profit.
Yeah, that's kind of the same feeling I get, I couldn't articulate it though.

Again, I don't think he's doing anything WRONG - it's just a bit ungrateful and not in the spirit of head-fi (from what I've seen).
post #44 of 165
Thread Starter 
Now I am wondering why it got pulled?
post #45 of 165
My reply from the first page why it would get pulled:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pak
According to ebay rules you can't charge the 3% extra for paypal, if that gets reported your auction will be taken down
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