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your thoughts on isolation footers - Page 2

post #16 of 29
10/25/05 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspindel
It's not an issue of being judgemental. I'm approaching this from the standpoint of science, not fidelity. At the end of the day, a CD is digital data, nothing more, nothing less. The name of the game is simply the most accurate rendering of the digital bitstream present on the cd. All of the techniques that you are describing here are methodologies for increasing the accuracy of that bitstream. Ripping a cd to a hard drive, assuming that you are using quality ripping techniqes -- disabling drive caching, offset calibrations, accurate error detection and correction, lossless encoding, and online checksum validations -- if you have a successful (errorless) rip, then you have just guaranteed yourself that you have every 1 and 0 encoded on that disc. Once it's on a hard drive, you have now eliminated the optical read, which is the whole source of all the errors that you're trying to corrrect with these isolation devices. From then on, you have an errorless way of producing a digital bitstream for your DAC. The only possible issue that this technique introduces would be jitter, but there are ways of limiting and all but eliminating it - DACs that syncronize clocks to the source, or USB digital connections with extremely low jitter, etc.

Seriously, I'm not trying to put anyone down or turn this into mudslinging or anything. I just hate seeing people spending their hard-earned money on gadgets to try to eliminate errors from optical reads because they perform this error-prone data extraction repetitively, every time they play a cd. Instead, extract the data once and store it on different media that is not prone to the sort of errors that require vibration isolation.
actually my pc sounds like crap. So Id rather not use it.
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post #17 of 29
10/25/05 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01
My thoughts are that CD players do not need isolation footers, because the transport is already dampened to withstand vibration. Amps don't need them at all as there are not moving parts.
imho cd transports do benfit in clarity and imaging. tube amps definately need some isolation technique, esp with a speker system.

edit: as i stated above minimum contact like spikes or bearings has worked alot better for me than absorbsion tehnique
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post #18 of 29
10/25/05 at 6:33pm
i use a trio of cones on each of my Wharfedales, and they're rock solid unless i push em, then of course they're topply hehe.

before cones - speakers sat on my desk, all bass booms you could feel thru the desk right into my keyboard - i could feel em while typing!

after cones - bass boom just as big, but hey no vibration on the desk. contact points with the desk are reduced to just the tiny trio of points to the speakers. they're doing SOMEthing right, eh?
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post #19 of 29
10/25/05 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
actually my pc sounds like crap. So Id rather not use it.
You're using a digital output??? If you're just taking the analog output of the soundcard, it's bound to sound like garbage. But you have the Micro Dac, right? Just connect the Micro Dac to the USB of your pc, it will sound perfect.
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post #20 of 29
10/25/05 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
....I like the look of them though, which was the main reason for picking some up.
Seems like a good reason for me
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post #21 of 29
10/25/05 at 10:55pm
I tried the panda thumb footers under my cd player and I couldn't tell if they made any difference. I tried some cones under my cd player and it gave music a glare in the upper mids and a bright fatiguing sound.

Biggie.
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post #22 of 29
10/29/05 at 12:09am
OK this needs to be a good one. My 100th post. I highly recommend Harmonic Resolution Systems plates and pucks. The plates use mass loading with a sorbothane type substance. I have played around with spikes and ceramic cones, sorbothane and other damping and absorbing materials. I kept thinking about how to do exactly what the HRS plate does. I use it on top of my Marantz SA11S1 SACD/CDP with hardware store half round door bumpers underneath on the stock pillars and feet. That and an aftermarket power cord I had laying around totally changed the presentation of the Marantz. The sound is more in focus if you will. Everyhting is more solid. Low bass is just plain scarey now. Like a total component upgrade. If your source is anywhere near your speakers, I fully believe you need isolation from airborne and structural vibrations. I have local dealer that has been around for years in the audio biz and he has tried every trick and tweak to come down the pike. He can sell any of this stuff. HRS is the only one he currently uses and sells in his showrooms. Low profile but great stuff.
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post #23 of 29
10/29/05 at 1:30pm
I have a lot of extra silicon rubber grommets from my P180 computer case. They are very soft and yet firm stuff, about 5-6mm in thickness and isolate very well. My SuperDAC bottom was previously almost in full contact with the surface (its built-in 'feet' are only 1-2mm thick and hardly isolates), so I decided to use the soft grommets as replacement feet as well as vibration dampener. Effect is looking positive to me so far: Bass has cleared up (less muddy and better defined) and the presentation has opened up more. The HD-650, which I complained of sounding rather bloated in bass, now is actually more enjoyable than what my initial listening suggested.

This could be for real or just placebo however, but knowing that the DAC had to share the same table surface as the speakers, some vibration isolation would indeed give it benefits. Plus, those grommets are free and there is something about having a wobbly DAC box.

Cheers!
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post #24 of 29
10/29/05 at 1:42pm
I use vibrapods & cones under my cd player. It is a very cheap upgrade, about $55 altogether.

Got better bass, air and separation from it.. nothing major but enough to make a difference to my listening
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post #25 of 29
10/29/05 at 2:57pm
Feet sometimes work and sometimes not. When they work, it can be for better or worse. Mostly for the better in my experience but it is difficult to predict. The result depends on the interaction of the component and the feet but also on surface / rack properties, for example cones can work great on a wooden surface but make it sound thin and shrill on a glass bench. So you must try.
I have good experience of Herbie's inexpensive Tenderfeet that are simple to use (you should use four Tenderfeet while many other feet work best in sets of three that makes positioning more difficult).
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post #26 of 29
10/29/05 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
does anyone here use footers on their cd player, did you notice any difference with or without them?
For a headphone-based system where a turntable is NOT a source, I wouldn't use any mechanical isolation devices. If you use speakers, then I'd spend some money on isolation, ESPECIALLY a turntable.

It sounds like a CDP will be your only source, though, and headphones your only means of listening. If that's the case, I'd save the money to put towards something else.

If you are using speakers in addition to your headphones, but the CDP is your only source, I still would spend only a few bucks. In that case, I'd get a set of AudioPoints that bolt directly to the CDP, using the stock foot mounting holes. You just remove the stock feet and bolt the AudioPoints on. Real simple, and cheap. Then I'd mass-load the top plate of the chassis with anything heavy, like a big book. If you really want to pimp-out your rig, then you could always spring for the notorious Brilliant Pebbles...
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post #27 of 29
10/29/05 at 3:31pm
I totally disagree with monkeyman.

When my CDP, which you can see in my sig, is on the vibrapods I can put my hand on it and feel it rocking because of the disc spinning inside. Now my CDP weighs 4.63 lbs which is pretty darn light.

Without the vibrapods it wouldn't be rocking gently on a cushioned surface. Instead it would be sending intense vibration spikes into the shelf it sits on and those vibrations would travel back up the feet and disrupt the CD spin and laser read causing errors.

The vibrations the CDP needs to be isolated from are it's own, not from loud speakers or anything in the room. This mechanical flaw is very clear in my situation; I can not only here a sonic improvement with my ears but I can see the vibration with my eyes and feel it with my hand.

Now if my CDP were sturdier and in the 15 lb + range this may be less of an issue and the sonic differences minute and I might agree with monkey man.

But if you have a very light CDP I would highly recommend you try isolation and in particular Vibrapods because they aren't rigid and have a beneficial cussioning effect.
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post #28 of 29
10/29/05 at 5:04pm
I'm pretty pleased with the quality of the footers that come under my Shanling, the same that is under many of the other Music Hall players. under each corner it comes with a disc about 2 inches in diameter, and under the disc it has three half spheres, probably made of rubber or silicone. As long as a footer looks substantial enough it doesn't bother me, and I have no desire to try anything else as it seems you have a 50/50 shot of the fancy ones making an improvement or hurting the performance. With a lot of my other equipment that comes with the little cheapie rubber rubber ones I replace them with some EAR ones that are a bit larger and cost $2.50 a pop plus a few bucks on larger screws and nuts and washers to get em fastened on the chassis.
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post #29 of 29
11/2/05 at 9:57pm
Thread Starter 
finally got them set up today.

if anything the bass and mids sound more present.

Not sure, but Im happy because it looks cool and matches the xcd 99 gold footers.

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