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Originally Posted by markl
 Woopee, he probably has a cable cooker of some kind.  .
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Hey why are ya woopee-ing me?

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Originally Posted by markl
[But even when cooked, there's still a (greatly reduced) burn-in effect.] Yeah, not every cable maker has a cooker, not many do, it adds greatly to the amount of time it takes to make a cable. That doesn't mean they're "hiding behind burn-in", though. It means the customer just has to be aware that their new cables are going to go through the process on their own gear, that's standard procedure that most customers are aware of in advance. That's my *least* favorite part of the whole cable-swapping game, I agree it SUCKS! If you don't like it straight out of the box, and if there is no burn-in effect and the cable doesn't change, chances are you are going to be even more sour and bitter about the cable's performance after going through the process and still having a bad cable, not less so. I think you would be more inclined to reject rather than accept.
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Yeah I can't verify that they're hiding behind it. I think it's to their advantage though. "Not that good after 100 hours you say. Give it another 50. You'll find the soundstage should open up, and the highs become airier, less metallic".

We worked hard for the money, why should we work hard to hear how good their cable is? I said it in the Grover thread, I'm going to accord a cable the same amount of respect and effort as sources, amps, speakers, etc. I'm not going to put myself in meditation mode to try to detect that little extra touch of whatever. Show me what you're made of right here, right now, knock me out or get out. Maybe I'm unfair or unreasonable, but I'm not interested in riding the equipment merry-go-round. I can't afford to upgrade on an annual basis and I don't know that I'd want to even if I could. I need to find keepers and forget about the rest. I believe there are lots of guys like me?
I'm in this for my love of music. My budget is limited, it always will be and it is my wish to get the most bang for my buck as I possibly can. I have no patience for moderate improvements, half measures or side-steps. I'm not very good at hearing tweaks. Or at least their significance seems far less to me than to others. I refuse to imagine it sounds better. Any equipment change has to be a head and shoulders, no BS, unmistakable improvement over it's predecessor. And it has indeed been a case of disappointment related to cables. Nearly every review reads the same. They are interchangeable, "blacker backgrounds". Your description of the transparency of the UR could be a description of the X-1. But it's a Darwinian world and there will usually be something that at some point raises the bar and sets a new standard. If they raise it high enough it becomes a classic I presume.
I've heard the UR and X-1 side by side and for me the bar was well raised by the X-1 in the under $200 market. I think I'm getting an accurate, neutral, uncolored, revealing listen through a Benchmark DAC1, ATC amp and ATC speakers. They tell me more than the Sennheiser HD-600's do by a good 30%. I listen through the speakers daily and know what to expect from familiar recordings. I knew my cheap phonostage was sort of flat sounding but still enjoyable, now the X-1 has made it less so. I'll use the less revealing Grover UR on it until it's upgraded. I would expect it possible others don't get quite the impact I got. Or transparency is not what they need most in their system or for their preference. I honestly don't know. There have been so few listeners.
I know a guy who hates accuracy and loves artificially warm and lush. There does not exist an argument that he is not right. He is right for his desires and I think that's perfectly cool. For some or for many the Grover UR will be the porridge that is just right and the X-1 too hot to handle. For me the X-1 is nirvana.
You're a person of true integrity in my opinion and a comparison could tell you if the torch of affordable transparency has been passed. A new level of transparency is here now for me and I'm having a heck of a good time listening to music. That's all I really know for sure.

As for the merits of already burned-in as I see it:
Your new cable arrives burned-in, it is what it is, it will never change.
Instantly ready to face the music! To stand or fall on it's immediate merits.
I like that, it suits me.
You don't like the new cable? It's nothing special?
Sweet! Return to sender!
You've just saved yourself a pile of time and effort.

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Originally Posted by michaelhwolff
In addition, even if the manufacturer has the ability and equipment to burn in the cables. I have a complete room dedicated to breaking in stuff, two fry cleaners for initial frequency break in, 2 cd players, preamp, amp, and cheap speakers for real-time break in. Everything is put on the Fry for 4 days and then on the appropriate equipment for the real-time. This process can take up to 3 weeks. However, some customers want the experience of hearing the break in process, I think they feel that it becomes more personal for them to hear the changes. Or, they may not want to wait the extra days or weeks for the process to be completed.at the manufacturer.
Other customer's like to have them broken in by the manufacturer and are willing to wait whatever time is needed. It's just a matter of preference. The option are always given and it is the customer's choice.
Regards,
Michael W.
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You're absolutely right Michael.
Maybe it should be an option for the customer 'To be or not to be' burned in.
I think it's cool that you do and the fact that you do, lends me to believe your products to be worthy additions to many systems.
Obviously the joys of break-in are not my bag, but i can see how it would be for another. Thanks for the other perspective.
Now the gradual revelations of the dance of the seven veils by a woman is completely different!

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Originally Posted by jp11801
Was that 199 for a one meter and just one set? The web site looks more expensive like $289 for one> one meter cable. I want one but at almost $300 it's a tough call, if it's 199 for a one meter you will have a second member
x-1 club
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Originally Posted by bobeau
I believe you missed this
"It is our policy is to offer deep discounts for direct sales, see discount below."
"Discounts (effective 8-May-2005):
first 2 pairs: 30%
third or more: 35%"
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Yes it is a messed up web site.

