new BMW? - Page 5

I'm wary of European cars. They don't seem to hold up the way that old American iron will. Japanese cars tend to hold up well, too.

The smoothness of the Lexus is like the smoothness of the toyota camry, would you agree? Keep in mind European cars are made to have a firm ride. If you want power go for germany, if you want smoothness go for Japan.

 

They tend too, however now Japaness cars are going down.

I will concede that in the last decade American cars have been trying to fix what they did wrong in the 80's and 90's, and especially Ford is making a lot of progress. As far as overall reliability Toyota/Scion is still tops in my book (Scion is tops in Consumer Report's too). I just took a ride in my work's 350k mile Tundra a few weeks ago, and she still drove like new. Neither Toyota or Scion fit the OP's request though so my argument is quite moot...(Although Lexus does... mmmm, AWD IS-F?)
 

 

 

Did no one else besides logwed not that this thread is 6 years old?

Yes, but who cares. Not everything has to be new. cheezzz

 

I'm the only person left that has any respect for time.

 

I noticed. The OP would have to be terribly indecisive to take this long to make a decision.

That's why I bought a Scion tC 5 speed. About 76k miles. Routine maintenance, add gas, nothing to worry about. Figure I'll get to 200k before it needs a serious repair. Toyota has run this drivetrain close to 30 years, so the bugs are wrung out of it. Parts will be available for decades. Also, the ride is excellent. I put the TRD rollbars on it and it's flat through turns. I'll put on the TRD shocks and springs when it turns 100k, which should be a nice upgrade. Might yank the smog crap at 100k, too, for a little more power.

My other car has a Ford 302/C4, which are dead reliable, too. I've owned it since '88 and can count the repairs on one hand. Granted, it has hideous mileage.

The problem with Euorpean cars is that the electronics are so complex. One little thing goes wrong and you'll have a devil of a time with it.

People make fun of Lucas electrics, but the new BMWs, Audis and Mercedes are an order of magnitude worse. If you have an old MG, you can stamp out the electrical gremlins. Not so with new cars. Hell, you'd probably violate the DMCA trying to straighten out a new BMW.

Yeah, very electronics heavy these new breed of cars.  One needs the complete electronic schematics of the vehicle along with the factory diagnostic computers to be able to track down gremlins.  There are probably fifty or so computers hiding all over the car, all communicating via digital interfaces called a CAN bus - very much like a LAN.  I personally would not own one after the 3 year warranty has expired.

 

Within these 3 years however, the current crop of BMWs drive like they are glued to a train track, very precise...yet clinical and somewhat unemotional...until we move to the M cars and disable the electronic driving aids.  Why people would purchase an M5 with seating for five, over 500 hp from a V10 does not quite make sense to me.  Until you release them on a race track...but then you wouldn't want those extra seats.  Perhaps I'm getting too old.  But all these "european handling" stiffly sprung cars will see their chassis and suspensions knocked to bits very early on.

 

The current crop of high performance of Audi and Mercedes rely too heavily on highly boosted turbo chargers with too much torque down low which then needs heavier drive lines to transfer the torque with reliability.  This tends to have a very negative affect on handling.  AWD is great for wet conditions and dirt roads, but the extra weight of the front differential seems to negatively affect the turn-in with understeer setting in earlier on dry tracks.  BMW still adheres to the high revving high horsepower philosophy which has less driveline damaging torque thus enabling lighter drivelines.  Think F1 engines, with massive horsepower up high and minimal torque down low so very light drivelines can be used. 

 

Weight reduction is everything and I find lighter cars are always more responsive with less inertia to contain.  The Japanese got that bit right, from their Katana blades to their cars.  Can't comment too much on US cars, but the last time I saw a brand new Chrysler here in Australia, the whole thing looked like like late 70s early 80s...sold in 2010.

Edited by SP Wild - 4/2/11 at 7:23am

 

okay, okay... some Angloamerican patriotism is animating this thread. fine - but I for one will say that I'm happier with my '09 VW GTI than with the Ford, Toyota, Honda, and Volvo models that preceded it over the past 12 yrs. it's practical, zippy, fun, roomy, handles well and has had zero issues whatsoever. I tested it against BMW and Mercedes models, and it's not as comfy but far more useful on the roads to me. but no, I won't be driving it to 200k odometer readings like I did with the Ford and Volvo - I'm leasing like I did with the Toyota and Honda. hope that by fall of 2012 or soon afterwards there's going to be more choice on the hybrid front!

I concur on the whole electronic heavy configuration in particular with European cars.  My 01' Volvo had 4 damn sensors replaced due to the check engine light, costing over $1K.  I asked how many more could possibly be replaced and was responded with "about 45 more sensors"  - seriously, a big WTF as the car only has 85K on the odometer.  I won't own another European car that's out of warranty.  It's my wife's car and because it's been paid off for a while, she doesn't want to replace it for a Honda or Subaru, and I'm the primary driver.  I even have a list of all the repairs done to it and the value of the car to the repair ratio is nearly equal.  My Subaru Forester had 120K miles (I was the original owner) and other than routine maintenance, a knock sensor when out and I was able to replace it myself after purchasing the sensor for $50.

Edited by alphaphoenix - 4/2/11 at 9:35am

I am guessing here, but I'd imagine that the VW / Audi group might prove more reliable due to the simple fact that they move the most cars for a European manufacturer.  This gives massive potential for feedback and improvement.  A lot of brands are actually built on VW architecture.