New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Brilliant Pebbles - Page 4  

post #46 of 87
they look pretty,

but I personally do not believe in the mighty pebbles.


I do believe these can affect overal sound
source
amplifier
headphones
interconnects/headphone cables
acoustic treatment such as curtains or wall panels
sampling rate
speakers

I do NOT believe in
the intelligent chip
super duper tweeter
rainbow foil
magic pebbles
freezing your photo
magic marker pen
post #47 of 87

Off topic response to Wolff

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelhwolff
Above is a link to a review of the Brilliant Pebbles done by a 6 moons reviewer. Typically like most moon reviews, a lot of flash and verbage but no beef. If anyone can figure out if he liked them or not, please let me know.
LOL! Good call, Michael. I've been noticing this more and more lately, and while I generally enjoy their writing style there certainly seems to be more fluff then substance in quite a few of their reviews (i.e. my Fi amps)
post #48 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
they look pretty,

but I personally do not believe in the mighty pebbles.
Well, it works :/

Give it a try. Compare it to the gummies. Then try the avocados.

I think the review I linked makes a good point; expensive audio tweaks surely DO change the sound, but is it a positive change? Negative change? Or just simply different change?
post #49 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
Obviously upper tier cabling is not your concern, rather then.. products of that type do not cater you. I think if you do not believe high quality cabling is for you, why not just leave it at that?
If someone asks for advice how to best to allocate their budget for a stereo system, or asks a question like "How much difference do cables really make?" I'm going to answer them. There is nothing wrong with me doing that. You aren't required to agree or even read my recommendation. If you love your cables and you aren't interested in anyone else's opinion, you aren't going to be asking a question like that anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
This forum is one of the few areas on the net that allows for such discussions without fear of threads like this, notice the no DBT rule, created so such angst would be avoided. Knowing this is a no DBT forum and upper tier cabling is often discussed here, why stir up arguments readers and participants have been trying to avoid in the first place?
No one is angst ridden here. There are plenty of things in this world really worthy of getting upset about, and wires are pretty doggone low on that list. My point in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with cables or double blind tests, and I'm not resorting to being rude, calling people stupid or insulting them to make my point. In fact, I generally extend more respect to people who disagree with me than they do to me.

My point is this... I'm simply illustrating with the Brilliant Pebbles (a tweak that belongs under this forum's category) that no opinion deserves special protection. An opinion rises and falls on its merits... that's the way it should be. People on the internet should be able to handle disagreement like adults without becoming upset. If someone is rude and insulting, it doesn't matter whether they like high end cables or don't like high end cables. The rudeness is the problem, not the opinion. If you have something to say, simply say it and back it up to the best of your ability. I'll do the same. Everyone will be happy.

The Brilliant Pebbles are an excellent example, because a lot of subjective, non-analytical, and ultimately meaningless buzzwords are used to describe the placebo effect by satisfied users. And there's plenty of dense scientific jargon used to justify the product in the white paper, without any firmly grounded real-world context. Add to that, the fact that a well known audiophile magazine reviewed the product favorably... and you should instantly see how this example can be helpful to recognize faulty logic in other audio reviews and first hand recommendations.

That's my point and it has nothing to do with double blind testing.

See ya
Steve
post #50 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
I do believe these can affect overall sound
source
amplifier
headphones
interconnects/headphone cables
acoustic treatment such as curtains or wall panels
sampling rate
speakers
I agree with you 100%. But I wouldn't say that all of those things affect the quality of the sound equally. Some make a huge difference, and others make very little difference. The proportion or degree of improvement is just as important as whether the improvement does or doesn't exist.

For instance, I would say that the quality of speakers and headphones in a system make the most difference to the sound. And I would say that the quality of the interconnects and headphone cables make the least. Do you agree with that?

See ya
Steve
post #51 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
I agree with you 100%. But I wouldn't say that all of those things affect the quality of the sound equally. Some make a huge difference, and others make very little difference. The proportion or degree of improvement is just as important as whether the improvement does or doesn't exist.

For instance, I would say that the quality of speakers and headphones in a system make the most difference to the sound. And I would say that the quality of the interconnects and headphone cables make the least. Do you agree with that?

See ya
Steve

I wouldnt say quality of interconnects make the least difference, say if you were using a $10,000 rig and used the $5 interconnects, you would definately be doing a great disservice to the systems true potential.
The little mini cable that came with my pocket dock is about 1/8" in diamter, and runs a few feet. This cable caused a hit in signal gain and loss in fidelity according to my ears, of course there will be those that disagree.

Now if my system consisted of this
$700 source
$300 budget panny
$4000 martin logans
and
$500 interconnects and speaker cables

and I had $5000, I wont be buying $5000 interconnects, I would buy mono block amplifiers.

I do however agree that $1000 interconnects is plain crazy, but it wouldnt sound crazy if you owned a $100,000 system. With audio, the point of diminishing returns hits quickly, the higher up the ladder in price you go the smaller and more incremental the improvement is. That is with every component IMO.

Then its up to the consumer whether or not the extra price is worth the improvement. In most cases audiophiles do not mind paying for the small improvement, this has been goes with every audio component in existence.

then there are other factors that come into play such as aesthetic preference and so on, those also are deciding factors which may cause one to purchase a higher end cable over a stock black one.

now if someone didnt want to upgrade their amp or source because it was too expensive to do so, since I believe raising the bar on interconnects does affect sonics to a degree, I would think a purchase of a higher end cable would be perfectly valid.

big shot didnt mean anything personal, I guess there were misunderstandings,
my apologies.

regarding headphone upgrades, I percieved a small improvement in sonics when I recabled my akgs, I heard NO improvement with my sr-80s, but I noticed a much more noticeable improvement when I upgraded my senn cable.
the differences are too noticeable to deny, IMHO. in regards to expansion of sound stage and top end. So I guess if someone were to buy an equinox or Zu, its an improvement worth spending on as it sonically improves the fidelity of the sound over the span of the cans life time, not too crazy of an investment IMO. If you ever open up a senn stock cable it uses tiny stranded magnet wire threaded with some sort of fiber, nothing worth mentioning.

regarding to what I build, I make sure I build something I am happy with in regards to build quality, parts, sonics and aesthetics, then I let others listen to it and give me input and I build upon that.
post #52 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180

I believe that cabling CAN sonically tweak overall performance, but not to the large degree that may result from a source and amp upgrade. Thats why its a tweak and not a component upgrade.



Do you mean "EQ" instead of "tweak"?
post #53 of 87
sorry guys,
but Im done with replying to this thread
anymore questions refer to my sig

Have a good day
post #54 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
I wouldnt say quality of interconnects make the least difference, say if you were using a $10,000 rig and used the $5 interconnects, you would definately be doing a great disservice to the systems true potential.
By defining the system as being a $10,000 rig, you are assuming that the speakers, source, amp, etc... are already of high quality. So naturally, all that's left is the cables. When I say that cables are the least important, that is "all things being equal"... starting from scratch on a system.

If I had $10,000 to spend on a stereo, I would spend half of that on speakers, then I would think about a nice amp, then a CD player, and on down the line. The absolute least important thing would be the cables. Assuming I need a dozen cables to connect all my components, and each one costs $100... that's enough to get a pretty darn good CD player or a nice DVD player... or both! My money would be better spent on upgrading some other component, or getting a nice set of cans and a headphone amp. Any of those things would make more of a difference to my enjoyment of my system than the difference between a fistful of nice Radio Shack cables and a fancy audiophile set.

Sure, if I had a $100 grand stereo and unlimited funds, I might as well go all out and get Louis the XIVth cables for it... but how many people around here are in that league? People here are college students buying $200 cable upgrades for $400 headphones and $400 worth of interconnects to hook up a $500 CD player to a $50 cmoy. That's just a plain old waste.

This isn't a matter of science or double blind tests... It's just garden variety horse sense... No one, not even Bill Gates, has unlimited resources. Everyone wants to spend their money wisely. It's important to put the recommendations one gives in context with the amount of bang for the buck. A lot of very dubious advice is handed out here all the time to people of modest means... I'm sure it's well meaning, but it's always easier to spend someone else's money on overpriced luxury items than one's own.

I feel a certain obligation to the people I'm chatting with to give them advice that's in proportion to their circumstances. If you have money to burn and have already maxed out the rest of your system, you won't be looking to me or anyone else in this group for advice... Go ahead and buy the fanciest cables you can find and have fun with them. But it ain't fair to suggest that the average hifi nut should put himself in hock for a handful of wires. There are other things that will give him much more bang for the buck.

As I've said elsewhere, a true audiophile optimizes the quality of sound he gets out of equipment, regardless of his financial means. Just because someone has a $100 grand stereo, it doesn't necessarily mean that it sounds better than one that costs a fraction as much. Really smart audiophiles can get more sound out of less.

See ya
Steve
post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
... and to show how subjective reviews aren't really that useful to anyone other than the person giving the review.
Your examples are not reviews. They are ads.

If 8 or more out of 10 people, which I know their taste and experience and agree with them, tell me they hear a better sound, I am considering the possibility that what they hear is real.
Especially if they hear the same qualities, like brighter or more resolution, without knowing of each others experiences.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
If someone asks for advice how to best to allocate their budget for a stereo system, or asks a question like "How much difference do cables really make?" I'm going to answer them.
Yup, despite your well documented inexperience in the matter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
I'm not resorting to being rude, calling people stupid or insulting them to make my point.
Addressing a member with a Quote of Mark Twain (fool) and a Quote of other head-fi members (phool) doesn’t count, does it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
People here are college students buying … $400 worth of interconnects to hook up a $500 CD player to a $50 cmoy.
Do you have a link? Never saw something like this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Danamr
Markl, Kurt, RnB180
Do you believe that putting stones in a glass jar, can affect the sound of your system?
I guess not. What is the purpose of this question?

Cheers
post #56 of 87
You're not going to find anyone here on Head-Fi who believes in Brilliant Pebbles. (Indeed, here's a good thread where people speculate that all of Machina Dynamica's products are intentional, greedily cynical, satire.)

You're just using Brilliant Pebbles as a strawman argument in your continuing crusade against cables. It's a fairly irrelevant strawman.
post #57 of 87
Quote:
Markl,
Do you believe that putting stones in a glass jar, can affect the sound of your system?
Give me a break! Have you read any of what I've posted in this thread? It's typical, again the automatic assumption from a skeptic that someone who is capable of hearing cable differences must automatically believe in these pebbles. Well, if that's your opinion of the typical Head-Fier, then again, I'd ask why you bother to hang out on a site obviously riddled with people you are prejudiced against and consider to be rubes and nimrods? Not many people around here for you to relate to, I'd imagine, so if it's not for company, I suspect it's strictly for trolling.

Quote:
My point is this... I'm simply illustrating with the Brilliant Pebbles (a tweak that belongs under this forum's category) that no opinion deserves special protection.
"bigshot", You can have any opinion you like about what the site should or shouldn't allow, but it's irrelevant to what the rules and policies actually are. people are restricted from discussing certain things here, such as religion, politics, and DBT (in the Cables forum anyway). You can keep pushing the edge of what's acceptable, and we'll see how long the Mods decide to humor you.

Perhaps you can start your own forum, where you can ban all subjective impressions of gear. I invite you to consider this.


This thread has run it course. Was it good for you?
post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl
Perhaps you can start your own forum, where you can ban all subjective impressions of gear. I invite you to consider this.
There's already a forum like that: hydrogen-audio. I've perused the site on occasion and IMO the people (at least the regulars) on head-fi are of a higher quality. Try proving/disproving that with a DBT

BTW markl, I always enjoy reading your comments. They're extremely well written and conveyed in a calm and rational manner. Most of the time (as in this thread) I find myself in complete agreement with your thoughts.
post #59 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt
What is the purpose of this question?
None that I can discern...

If you want to make a point, you will have to do more than one sentence dismissals.

See ya
Steve
post #60 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl
This thread has run it course. Was it good for you?
Yes, it taught me a few things.

See ya
Steve
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
This thread is locked