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Brilliant Pebbles - Page 3  

post #31 of 87
I know I'll be listening to two new pairs of IC (overdue!) soon. If I bother posting about them (remember I'm in this for myself not anyone else ), I think I'll put a disclaimer at the beginning saying thanks but no thanks to anyone who feels the need to enlighten me about the subjectivity of audio.
I'm familiar with the debate thanks.
post #32 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
What's so bad with a decent netiquette? It's for protecting peaceful people with interest in audio against attacks from ideological extremists claiming that they're «audiophools» fallen for the high-end industry's marketing tricks and placebo effects.
Who needs to be protected from anything that small? Look at what you're saying... You're demanding that everyone add a disclaimer to every absolute statement they make, and you're upset at being called a "phool". An adult should be able to deal with these things without any problem.

See ya
Steve
post #33 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl
When someone comes in here with a review of some new cables, or is asking for advice on what cables to upgrade to next, drive-by skeptical thread-crapping is completely against the rules, not to mention incredibly rude.
If someone asks what kind of cables they should use to tame the high end of their system, it's not a thread crap to suggest more efficient and practical ways of accomplishing an EQ tweak that than by buying $200 wires.

Likewise, if someone has fifty dollar headphones and they are asking which $200 cable upgrade they should consider, it would be rude to NOT point out that the $200 would be better spent on new cans. Expensive cable upgrades are regularly recommended for midrange systems. What's the point of even putting a $200 cable on $200 cans?

My main objection isn't that cables don't make any difference. I can imagine that it would be possible to manufacture a cable that has controlled inefficiency to act as a slight filter... My objection is to people who are incapable of accurately expressing the relative improvement a cable upgrade can make. The degree of improvement between one cable and another is miniscule compared to getting better speakers or cans, rearranging the listening room, removing a noisy component, or even adjusting the tone controls properly. All of these things should be done before even considering a problem with the cabling. Yet I keep seeing people recommending cable upgrades for problems that are better dealt with in other ways.

It's like the Monty Python sketch where the guy goes into an employment office to apply for a job as lion tamer, and it turns out the only qualification he has is that he owns a hat that says "Lion Tamer" on it. Just because you've got that hat, it doesn't make you a lion tamer.

See ya
Steve
post #34 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
An adult should be able to deal with these things without any problem.
Doesn't that also apply to dealing with differing opinions?
Even if they were wrong, being big enough to stand by in silence and respect their space.

EDIT:What's so terrible about being wrong or so fantastic about being right anyway with a fairly unimportant subject like audio where often the differences between the two are so small they can be debated ad nauseum without resolve?
post #35 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth
I know I'll be listening to two new pairs of IC (overdue!) soon. If I bother posting about them (remember I'm in this for myself not anyone else ), I think I'll put a disclaimer at the beginning saying thanks but no thanks to anyone who feels the need to enlighten me about the subjectivity of audio.
I'm familiar with the debate thanks.
I'll suggest that you buy them from a place that offers a 30 day no questions asked return policy. That's polite and helpful, isn't it?

See ya
Steve
post #36 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
I'll suggest that you buy them from a place that offers a 30 day no questions asked return policy. That's polite and helpful, isn't it?
Yep I'm aware these benefits as a long time purchaser of consumer goods from shoes (don't wear them outside) to underwear (wear them and they're yours ).

I think people who spend $5K on carribean cruises with nothing to show after but photos and video are nuts. But I wouldn't waste my time enlightening them when they know they are purchasing a temporary period of happiness. I'm the one who would be wrong imposing my unsolicited wisdom upon them.

I know I've been guilty in the past of the very thing I'm criticizing....well I'm free to see differently if I choose.
post #37 of 87
Quote:
Likewise, if someone has fifty dollar headphones and they are asking which $200 cable upgrade they should consider, it would be rude to NOT point out that the $200 would be better spent on new cans. Expensive cable upgrades are regularly recommended for midrange systems. What's the point of even putting a $200 cable on $200 cans?
1. There are no aftermarket cables for any $50 can. Only aftermarket cables are for the high-end Senns ($250-$350 cans), AKG K1000 ($550 cans), and Sony Qualia ($2.5K).

2. Anyone recommending cable upgrades as a panacea for correcting deficiencies they *perceive* in a Senn headphone, is giving bad advice. Having experimented with a few of the Senn replacement cables and having a good sense of what a cable can or can't do, no cable swap is going to suddenly make you love the Senns if you don't already. Many times I've told people frustrated with Senns that investing in an expensive aftermarket cable to "fix" them is throwing good $$ after bad. Time to move on to a new set of cans. Those cables are to provide the icing for people who already love the Senn cake.

3. In general, if you have a Sennheiser 600 or above headphone, you've likely already invested in some amplification, and *probably* already have a decent source. Even in some mid-fi systems a cable swap will yield benefits. But I most definitely agree if someone is running an HD650 out of a sound card to listen to mp3s, he's much better off investing in front-end equipment (or *gasp* even some CDs), it's common sense.

4. You seem to labor under the impression that people are going around recommending people put $1000 cables on $200 systems. I almost never see that, and when I do, I'm the first one to chime in and explain why that's a bad idea. But there are people with $1000, $3000, and $5000+ systems on this board, who are well within their rights to inquire about fancy cables. Live with it.

5. As you well know, there's a big difference in politely suggesting that someone contemplating an expesnive cable upgrade on a budget system look at other options first, than in rudely barging in on a thread reviewing a particular cable, or a thread requesting info on cables within a certain price range and doing a drive-by-- "God you people are retarded, a cable's a cable, you dopes, show me the DBT" sort of thread crap. Ain't rocket science is it?

Quote:
My main objection isn't that cables don't make any difference. I can imagine that it would be possible to manufacture a cable that has controlled inefficiency to act as a slight filter... My objection is to people who are incapable of accurately expressing the relative improvement a cable upgrade can make. The degree of improvement between one cable and another is miniscule compared to getting better speakers or cans, rearranging the listening room, removing a noisy component, or even adjusting the tone controls properly. All of these things should be done before even considering a problem with the cabling. Yet I keep seeing people recommending cable upgrades for problems that are better dealt with in other ways.
Who are you arguing with that believes that cable swaps make bigger differences than upgrading to much better speakers, better sources, or better amplification? It's a pure straw man. Two dozen or more times on this site, there have been discussions on how to best allocate funds within a headphone system, polls on the subject, etc., do a search, you'll find them. You'll see that cabling always ends up at the bottom, where it belongs. Your perception of what goes on on this site and what actually happens are worlds apart, dude.
post #38 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth
Doesn't that also apply to dealing with differing opinions?
Even if they were wrong, being big enough to stand by in silence and respect their space.
What?! Since when do opinions deserve to exist in a vacuum? Personally, I learn as much from people who disagree with me in a knowledgeable way than I do from people who agree with me. I *want* my opinions to be discussed. Why would anyone be afraid of being disagreed with?

Why are cables exempt from the same sort of analysis everything else in this world is subject to? I can understand exempting religion from critical discussion... that's a matter of faith, so logic doesn't apply... but cables?!

See ya
Steve
post #39 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl
"God you people are retarded, a cable's a cable, you dopes, show me the DBT"
The rude thing about that comment isn't the part that says "a cable is a cable" or "show me the DBT"... It's the "God you people are retarded" and "you dopes".

There's nothing rude at all about suggesting that a listening test under controlled conditions might reveal whether or not there is a noticeable improvement; and if so, whether the degree of improvement justifies the price.

By the way, there are aftermarket cable upgrades for my cans... HD-590s that exceed the price of the cans themselves.

See ya
Steve
post #40 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl
Who are you arguing with that believes that cable swaps make bigger differences than upgrading to much better speakers, better sources, or better amplification?
I spoke with a poster who was using cables to equalize his system. That's a pretty doggone inefficient way of correcting frequency response imbalances.

See ya
Steve
post #41 of 87
"bigshot", why do you pretend to be so innocent? Who me? Stirring up trouble? Trying to get a rise out of people? *Moi*? Give me a break.

I refer you to the purpose of your thread here, for example, which is not innocently "educational", but a naked attempt to mock people who believe in cable differences by equating them with people who put pebbles on their CD player or people who wear aluminum foil on their heads to prevent the government from reading their minds for that matter.

Get a life!
post #42 of 87
Thread Starter 
You're reading things into what I say that aren't there. The purpose of my starting this thread was to illustrate the silliness of forbidding discussion of testing and to show how subjective reviews aren't really that useful to anyone other than the person giving the review. It wasn't intended to mock anyone, singularly or collectively. If what I say bothers you, please feel free to skip over my posts. You aren't required to respond.

See ya
Steve
post #43 of 87
post #44 of 87
bigshot,

Obviously upper tier cabling is not your concern, rather then.. products of that type do not cater you. I think if you do not believe high quality cabling is for you, why not just leave it at that? theres no need to share what you deem as scientific fact when others enjoy the performance of such products.
and enjoy them differently from you. They enjoy them, you do not, no need to force people to think likewise with you.

let them be.

This forum is one of the few areas on the net that allows for such discussions without fear of threads like this, notice the no DBT rule, created so such angst would be avoided. Knowing this is a no DBT forum and upper tier cabling is often discussed here, why stir up arguments readers and participants have been trying to avoid in the first place? If you would like to discuss you opinions about DBT and what not, there are other forums to cater to you.


I believe that cabling CAN sonically tweak overall performance, but not to the large degree that may result from a source and amp upgrade. Thats why its a tweak and not a component upgrade.

when I see someone using a recommend a $5 cable here or there, because they feel its a very good purchase, you dont see people arguing like this.

post #45 of 87
Markl, Kurt, RnB180
Do you believe that putting stones in a glass jar, can affect the sound of your system?
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