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Gasoline prices: the end of an era. - Page 4  

post #46 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanY
Yeah, the Hummer tax break is a great symbol of how the government has done much to bring the current situation on by failing to implement sensible policies. Just implementing reasonable fuel efficiency standards for SUVs could have made a big difference in reducing the demand side of the equation, but no one has the balls to even suggest it. Instead, they're attempting magic quick fixes like changing Daylight Savings Time. We'll never get to the root of the problem that way.
Yes. And most of these decisions seem to rest with people that stand to benefit while everyone else suffers. I'm sick and tired of seeing a few people in charge continue to fatten their wallets at the expense of the genpub. "The rich grow richer..."

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post #47 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:15pm
I think all we need to do is mandate that by some year (say 2015) all cars sold in the US must get a certain minimum gas mileage (say 35 miles/gal) unless a person can demonstrate a real need for a larger car--which should be limited to vehicles used for legitimate business purposes such as buses, construction, farming, etc. No more SUVs just for the sake of having a larger car than your neighbor. No more corvettes just for the sake of having a car that's only purpose is to break the law anyway. It really pains me to say that last sentance given that I'm a huge car enthusiast, but it's true.
post #48 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefemeister
I think all we need to do is mandate that by some year (say 2015) all cars sold in the US must get a certain minimum gas mileage (say 35 miles/gal) unless a person can demonstrate a real need for a larger car--which should be limited to vehicles used for legitimate business purposes such as buses, construction, farming, etc. No more SUVs just for the sake of having a larger car than your neighbor. No more corvettes just for the sake of having a car that's only purpose is to break the law anyway. It really pains me to say that last sentance given that I'm a huge car enthusiast, but it's true.
No Corvettes?! Blasphemy!

Of course, being a huge car enthusiast, I'm sure you already know that the Vette gets very respectable gas mileage considering the displacement and horsepower of the engine. The light weight and great aerodynamics of the car contribute greatly to that, so of course it won't help you much around town, but my GF's father recently took a trip in his `02 C5 and got close to 30 mpg!
post #49 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:34pm

An Easy Fix...

Ride your bicycle to work and to the store!
We all have an old, dusty bike in the garage that we used to ride so why not take it down to the shop and get it running again! Way cheaper than buying a moped and better for your reputation I'd say. I ride to work every day and drive a total of 300 miles a month max!
Also, it saves me so much money I can but more audio gear!
post #50 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:37pm
2015 puts things off too far IMO, because as we approach 2015, the date will be pushed further and further into the future. Mandated minimum MPGs should begin in 2007, or sooner. But, I also think that market forces will accomplish the same thing as gas prices continue to rise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefemeister
I think all we need to do is mandate that by some year (say 2015) all cars sold in the US must get a certain minimum gas mileage (say 35 miles/gal) unless a person can demonstrate a real need for a larger car--which should be limited to vehicles used for legitimate business purposes such as buses, construction, farming, etc. No more SUVs just for the sake of having a larger car than your neighbor. No more corvettes just for the sake of having a car that's only purpose is to break the law anyway. It really pains me to say that last sentance given that I'm a huge car enthusiast, but it's true.
post #51 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg
2015 puts things off too far IMO, because as we approach 2015, the date will be pushed further and further into the future. Mandated minimum MPGs should begin in 2007, or sooner. But, I also think that market forces will accomplish the same thing as gas prices continue to rise.
2007 is impossible. I write software for car radios and we plan out the next 3-5 years; I can only imagine how far ahead the engine/tranny people are looking. if you make a law now, you can not reasonably expect it to make it into production for at least 6-8 years without causing huge financial hardships to the companies involved. I realize that a lot of the problem lies with these companies in the first place but remember that they employ tens of thousands of people and are already in serious job-cutting mode. Ford has already laid out plans to cut around 10,000 white collar jobs over the next 3 years, GM probably can't afford to pay out their pensions anymore, etc.

Concerning riding a bike everywhere, that would flatout not work for me. I have a 70 mile round trip every day to work, and hell if I'm getting run over touting an armful of groceries on the tiny edge of a busy 4 lane street.

And if indeed the corvette can approach 30 mpg, I'm sure it won't be too difficult to hit my ficticious 35 mpg cutoff.
post #52 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefemeister
I think all we need to do is mandate that by some year (say 2015) all cars sold in the US must get a certain minimum gas mileage (say 35 miles/gal) unless a person can demonstrate a real need for a larger car--which should be limited to vehicles used for legitimate business purposes such as buses, construction, farming, etc. No more SUVs just for the sake of having a larger car than your neighbor. No more corvettes just for the sake of having a car that's only purpose is to break the law anyway. It really pains me to say that last sentance given that I'm a huge car enthusiast, but it's true.
YES! And we should mandate that homes have sq footage and number of rooms equal to the number of family members and how much space they really need to lessen tree cutting. Also smaller yards since they could not need that much space right?
Maybe we should also limit the production of MRI's and other hospital equipment that uses materials made from oil and limit the computer production and all other products made from oil and fossil fuels for the same reasons. Based on your logic we should mandate what the people need and restrict what they want? If memory serves this has been tried in the past and didn't do so well.
post #53 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
YES! And we should mandate that homes have sq footage and number of rooms equal to the number of family members and how much space they really need to lessen tree cutting. Also smaller yards since they could not need that much space right?
Maybe we should also limit the production of MRI's and other hospital equipment that uses materials made from oil and limit the computer production and all other products made from oil and fossil fuels for the same reasons. Based on your logic we should mandate what the people need and restrict what they want? If memory serves this has been tried in the past and didn't do so well.
You had better go ahead and dispose of those HD 650s at once! You don't need that much headphone. iPod earbuds should do nicely.
post #54 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:56pm
I don't agree with banning vehicles. If someone has enough money to buy a Hummer and keep it running, then they should be able to. Restricting the sale of certain vehicles is also pretty unlikely because it would be branded as unamerican. The tax breaks for the biggest SUVs need to end though. Like MikeG, I would agree with mandatory minimum MPGs per vehicle class that slowly increase on a yearly basis in order to spur manufacturers to create and sell more fuel efficient vehicles.

Though, MikeG may be right. We may have passed the point where proactive policies could soften the blow or change anything. Economic forces may be entirely in the driver's seat now.
post #55 of 240
8/15/05 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
YES! And we should mandate that homes have sq footage and number of rooms equal to the number of family members and how much space they really need to lessen tree cutting. Also smaller yards since they could not need that much space right?
Maybe we should also limit the production of MRI's and other hospital equipment that uses materials made from oil and limit the computer production and all other products made from oil and fossil fuels for the same reasons. Based on your logic we should mandate what the people need and restrict what they want? If memory serves this has been tried in the past and didn't do so well.
yeah but you can't make moonshine gasoline. What is up with this American sense of entitlement? It is this reason alone that the US runs rampant with lawsuits and murders. If we could all realize that there are bigger problems than our personal needs the world would be a lot better off.
post #56 of 240
8/15/05 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefemeister
I realize that a lot of the problem lies with these companies in the first place but remember that they employ tens of thousands of people and are already in serious job-cutting mode. Ford has already laid out plans to cut around 10,000 white collar jobs over the next 3 years, GM probably can't afford to pay out their pensions anymore, etc.
GM and Ford are in even more serious trouble now that gas prices have risen so high. The bulk of their earnings over the past few years have come from 1) financing and 2) SUVs. SUVs were their most profitable vehicle class. Even then, they managed to lose a lot of money. With SUVs inevitably becoming less popular (economic factors will guarantee this), the prospects of GM and Ford returning to profitability any time soon are really slim.
post #57 of 240
8/15/05 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanY
I don't agree with banning vehicles. If someone has enough money to buy a Hummer and keep it running, then they should be able to.
I agree; I pay a lot in fuel costs for my car and I wouldn't want anyone to ban it just because it's not very fuel efficient. But the system is just sad when Hummer drivers get tax relief in exchange for helping to destroy the environment and drive gas prices higher at the same time.

Sorry, that'll be my last post on the Hummer tax break. I just can't get over it though! Good old USofA. I love the freedoms that we are given (even though it seems like those are becoming less and less) but we sure do have some f'ed up policies.

"O'er the land of the free, and the home of the greedysonsabishes!"
post #58 of 240
8/15/05 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP
I say drive them up even higher and higher. Until the middle class starts to feel the pinch of the higher gas prices, no one really cares. It's a sad fact, but apparently we need to actually have a mininature economic depression in order to spur innovation to get off of this archaic technology.

I don't think it actually will happen though. We seem to be investing a LOT of time, blood, and money into the oil production stability route. Which means we probably have something up our sleeve.

I can't help but wonder where we'd be if we spent all the money on oil (wars, production, investments, ect) on developing other technologies.
The ONLY good thing about these ridiculous prices is it has kicked up interest in the hybrid cars. They are back ordered and selling for above list price in some places.
It's too bad we have to be slapped around in order to get us interested in alternate automotive technology.

I'd love to see the country really get behind hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles, it would decrease pollution, and drop our dependance on foreign oil. My next car will very likely be one.

But unfortunately TWIFOSP has it right.
Until "Sally Soccer Mom" gets over the idea that she "needs" a 9 passenger gas sucking beast to go pick up little Timmy from practice, we're going to continue to pay what ever gas costs until we just can't pay anymore.
They have the supply and we have a demand.

Imagine what would happen if we cut our oil use by 25%
TR
post #59 of 240
8/15/05 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefemeister
yeah but you can't make moonshine gasoline. What is up with this American sense of entitlement? It is this reason alone that the US runs rampant with lawsuits and murders. If we could all realize that there are bigger problems than our personal needs the world would be a lot better off.
We're not talking about entitlement we're talking about freedom. Americans are entitled to freedom but not to possession. The mandate you recommend would take that freedom from us. As I said before they could then mandate the home size you could own and even the amount of food you could buy based on what they think you "need", hell they could mandate our freedom itself! Stalin and Hitler have shown us where this path leads.
Lawsuits and murders are a very different topic and relate much closer to flawed court systems, judges, and prosecutions.

AlanY - Vehicle makers already improve MPG as they progress but it is not and should not be mandated. If someone wants great MPG they have the freedom to buy a hybrid or something. Think of it from a business owners standpoint; if you made headphone amps and the government slapped a mandate on you that all your amps had to meet certain power requirements/restrictions by a certain date. This would hurt your production, drive your costs up and may affect your product quality. As long as there is competition in any industry there will always be a natural progression.

Todays SUV's and such mostly have duel catalytic converters and produce almost 0 emissions, run virtually smog free, and get great MPG given their size. power, and abilities. Compare this to any vehicle from 1985 and tell me we have not made phenomenal progress in just 20 years!
post #60 of 240
8/15/05 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeride74
Todays SUV's and such mostly have duel catalytic converters and produce almost 0 emissions
<cough>Carbon Dioxide=Greenhouse Gas=massive emissions from SUVs<cough>
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › Gasoline prices: the end of an era.