arnaud, FWIW, I didn't especially like the UR1, I felt it was a step backwards from the old SR2. I think the UR2 and coming forward was where the UR series really came into its own. That said, I can't say at all whether you'd like the UR4 better than another cable, but I'm almost positive you'd like it better than the UR1 (if that helps you any). Cheers.

is two months common for these cables from order to receipt? I have some on order and really understand that he is a small business just trying to figure out what average time is. Although if it's longer it will be the ur5.
I am excited to hear them and compare to current cables I have.

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Send Grover another follow-up email.........squeaky wheel gets the grease

On the plus side the UR cable has been improved since your initial order so you will get better cable when it arrives.

A UR-5 should be arriving anyday. I'm hopeful of course (never discount) but not optimistic after the way UR-2-3-4 were knocked out in the first round by the Oritek X-1.

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email sent last night so I should hear from him today or tomorrow he seems really good about commication.

You are right with any luck I'll have the UR4 version 2 or the UR5.

I have had an order in for over a couple of months as well. He is just really busy right now. With the R&D and the pile of orders he has, it is going to take some time.

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This was the message from Grover about the UR-4:
"I unfortunately did not send you my best cables. On the way are cables that will set a new standard(IMO). They are far and beyond the cables you have."

I had forgotten that....but now that I think about it I'm puzzled.
So are some people getting the "best cables" and others are not?
Is this the reason why the UR series have not generally seemed anything too special to me?
I've been sent the bad Ultimate Reference versions?

I thought I was to be won over to the fan club/band wagon?
Not convinced of the Ultimate Reference's OK-ness.
Has this all been a test?

Anyone else get one of the less than best URs?

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R&D.
There's a Q-tip or pinata joke in there somewhere.

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it seems to depend on where you fall in the revision time table... i originally ordered the ur2 and after about two months i recieved the ur4(the best at the time of shipment), then a few weeks later i was notified about the newer u4 and then about a month after that the ur5.

source synergy is very important with these grovers. ive had a rollercoaster of results between different revisions and different sources. it would be nice to know what setup grover is actually using for r&d.

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I generally got mine within two weeks including the UR4 a few weeks ago. I don't know the why of it.
Like I said before you can't blame a guy for wanting to improve his product. But some audio products are in production for like ten years without major revision. They were right from the start, ready for prime time.

The UR series reminds me of art college and how a project was from the original design or conception either right, wrong or somewhere in between. The right were easy to run with, the wrong were easy to discard. It was the in between that were buggers! I labored for ages revising, adjusting, adding, subtracting, rearranging and at some point I'd lose my perspective, lose objective judgment and every effort was just making things worse. No amount of screwing around could change for the better a design that wasn’t right to begin with.
"You just can’t get there from here" comes to mind.

Baseball analogy:
The UR is a fine veteran; it consistently goes to bat and gets a hit, makes it safely to second base (that’s good for $140 IMO). Years of effort (R&D?) have had it arrive at this level of performance. Contrast that to the Oritek, the rookie goes to bat for the first time ever and smacks a home run.
What does this say about having the right, wrong or somewhere between design from the start? No need for revision or upgrade. No need to "give it 100 hours to burn-in"
It just keeps smacking them out of the park every listen. It's design was on the money from the start, no goofing around.


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I'm changed my mind on this. Cables having to be synergistically matched to sources means they are too colored, too interfering.
I think we agree that sources should be as tonally neutral as possible. I now think cables should be as non-interfering as possible. Not be nice, not be smooth but try for transparency. Be revealing and tonally neutral.

The Oritek has twice the soundstage of the UR and a much greater amount of low level detail without being brighter. What does this say? It's about one being much more transparent and getting out of the way more than the other by design.

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In your (not-so-humble) opinion.

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yes but in my experience the grovers were substantially better and really a completely new sound when i [substantially] upgraded my source. this doesnt meean they are more colored, in fact the opposite, they came to life when their source could step up to the challenge. they always felt really transparent but i thought they sounded anemic, what i ultimately found is i just didnt like how my source sounded.

in your case maybe the Oritek are the colored cables and you dont like the sound of the grovers b/c you dont ultimately like your source. im not trying to start with you just playing devils advocate on the topic.

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Heh...yeah.
Let's agree on 'human' opinion.

The opinion doesn't look very humble, at self!
I've been cautious, I've checked and rechecked. It's not a comfortable position to put your neck on the line. To put yourself in postion to feel embarrassed should someone not have the same experience. It's also not comfortable to say A is better than B knowing an audience, including the creater, is watching. You feel like you're introducing Japanese automobiles into 1970's Detroit!
I take as much comfort as I can from the difference in price between the UR and X-1 and want to emphasize it. For some guys $140 is a stretch and $199 out of reach. I like the UR and I like Grover. Music lovers are fortunate to have the UR around. But tip toeing around the truth would nag me as well.
You know me as impatient with subtle upgrades. I was relating to a friend how upon entering higher end gear, cables were the biggest disappointment in not living up to the hype. 1000 cables and 1000 great reviews. Grover, Au24, PS Audio, Nordost, whatever, same old, same old sounds under $500.

I didn't think a listener should have to go meet the cable half way in hearing it's subtle differences. To have to meditate in order to detect. To be imaginitive in finding the words to describe. I wondered if I had lousy ears. I was content with that prospect, it would save me money.
The differences in sources, amps, etc are totally apparent without effort and I thought cables should be held to the same high standards, however unrealistic that was. And along comes the rookie Oritek with an interconnect that is in the order of a source upgrade!

I was equally overjoyed and uncomfortable. I was going to sound like a nut. But I felt I should still speak up. I kept having to verify again and again that it was true as my own opinion sounded like so much BS to me. What if I were to be alone in this experience? I'd look foolish. The only support I had was the reviews which precisely mirrored what I heard. Larry Cox was listening with ATC gear as was I. Could their revealing nature be magnifying the X-1's affect? I don't know. I'll have to live with it (with a smile).

My view is now obscured though with the addition (with some arm twisting) of the now unavailable Oritek S-1 speaker cable (web site is out of date. Soon the much more expensive S-2). I'm not hearing an IC as much now. The picture deepened, darkened but increased in detail and holography. But it did not wow me the way the X-1 did. It was not revelatory. It's impact was less. Detail 5-10%? Holography 10-20%?

One reference for $140 and another for $199.

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Swapping back and forth short term, blind, long term: consistent results} with the X-1, soundstage multiplies in all directions with images having more definition and independence, far more detail. Grover UR, everything shrinks and flattens, grayness increases and details disappear.
If transparency (letting info pass untouched) and colored (interfering and obscuring of info) are opposites, which IC is which? The UR is revealing the lousiness of the source and the X-1 is independently generating musical information? Maybe
The beauty, I've discovered, of a high degree of transparency is that even with poorly mastered CDs it's easier to look past the bad, the good stuff that is there can shine through. Colored tries to hide the bad but loses the good. I guess it's a personal preference in the end.
(The X-1 did confirm what I knew to some extent though, that my $200 Graham Slee phonostage was a weakest link. It ruined it! ).

Maybe the UR-5 is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? That would be perfectly fine with me. I'd be overjoyed! If so, I shall not tippy toe around the truth either.
I will report it here immediately.

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you might be right in your comparisons and i would like to try the cables you are praising. my first set of grovers ur4 sounded like your impressions, i was not impressed and i preferred the vhaudio pulsars for various reasons.

after getting a better source the grovers became very good and the pulsars lost ground. i clearly prefer the grovers now and they now exhibit none of the original weaknesses. soundstage in particular is now huge and 3 dimensional.

i risk sounding overly dramatic about my results and could potentially disappoint peopel who dont hear the same characterisitics or nuances.
i just have to stress that a source change made a huge difference and now i am not hunting for any improvements in the sound, nor am i overly concerned with weaknesses b/c i really cant find any glaring at me.

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There are no glaring weaknesses with the UR. It's a good cable.
It's just that the UR didn't live up to the hype for me and the X-1 did live up to the hype.
One was good, the other extraordinary.
So listen and compare.

The dude's web site is not good (I hate it) and out of date (ignore the pricing).

If you don't like them, return them, you get your money back.
They're burned-in before shipping and ship the same day.
No waiting, plug 'n play!

Like some of us say "hearing is believing"

my pulsars are going back to vh-audio tomorrow, i listened to them again tonight after not hearing them for a couple weeks and im now 100% sure im not keeping them around, the ur4 and u4 are better for my system.

when the $170 is refunded to my paypal account i will order the oritek x1 and hopefully we can continue our discussion. by that time ill have the ur5 on hand and burned in too.

id like to try the michael wolff cables but i really cant afford to like them, $475 is out of my range for a pair of interconnects.

edit: are you sure oritek offers a trial period? i dont see it listed anywhere on the website