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Good DAC made in Europe - Page 2

post #16 of 74
7/14/05 at 4:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
AQVOX USB 2 D/A .
German engineering, assembled in China, sold by a german company partly owned by the engineer.
Very nice DAC, I like it way better than the "famous" Benchmark DAC1 I also own.
Cosmopragma, could you tell me some specific details about what sort of system you're using your Aqvox with and what the sound quality is like? Can you remember how it compared to the Dac1?

Dig your avatar: is that a hamster or a guinea pig?
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post #17 of 74
7/14/05 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrossklass
High-quality components, looks nice - but a NOS filterless DAC? The strong ultrasonic components of the resulting signal may generate IM distortion inside the amp and aren't likely be very tweeter friendly. That concept is simply broken by design.
You trolling? NOS filterless DACs are quite popular and I'm not aware of any outcry of downstream system damage from high freq distortion. Nixon Tubedac, Ack Dack, and Audio Note are all highly respected implementations. I believe the Audio Note design is also devoid of any filters, digital or analog.
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post #18 of 74
7/14/05 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwc
You trolling?
I'm not sure he is trolling.

Filterless DACs ARE broken by design, WHEN one looks at them from sampling theorem and technical point of view.

But there is NO DENYING that a lot of sane engineering people with lots of experience find them to be the best sounding (subjectively) designs they've heard. Even if they are broken by design and they fully admit this.

It just goes to show that technical purity does not one necessarily happy make

Thanks for the tips, btw. It's good to know about European alternatives, who always get trampled in the onslaught of their American competitors with superior "I'm the best" type marketing.

Keep them coming.

Also, cosmopragma has commented on the AQVox DAC here:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=22
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post #19 of 74
7/14/05 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyon
I'm not sure he is trolling.

Filterless DACs ARE broken by design, WHEN one looks at them from sampling theorem and technical point of view.

But there is NO DENYING that a lot of sane engineering people with lots of experience find them to be the best sounding (subjectively) designs they've heard. Even if they are broken by design and they fully admit this.

It just goes to show that technical purity does not one necessarily happy make

Thanks for the tips, btw. It's good to know about European alternatives, who always get trampled in the onslaught of their American competitors with superior "I'm the best" type marketing.

Keep them coming.

Also, cosmopragma has commented on the AQVox DAC here:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=22

Thanks Halcyon for pointing to Cosmopragma's thread. Cheers.
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post #20 of 74
7/14/05 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
AQVOX USB 2 D/A .
German engineering, assembled in China, sold by a german company partly owned by the engineer.
Very nice DAC, I like it way better than the "famous" Benchmark DAC1 I also own.
Hmmmmmm, so many buttons, and one could actually look at it locally... how much does this thing set one back?
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post #21 of 74
7/14/05 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyon
Also, cosmopragma has commented on the AQVox DAC here:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=22
Quote:
Originally Posted by catachresis
Thanks Halcyon for pointing to Cosmopragma's thread. Cheers.
Arrrghhhhhhh.These were first impressions.

Our first prime minister Adenauer once replied when he was accused of contradicting himself:
"I don't care about the chatter of yesterday."
This is one of my favorite historical quotes.

The AQVOX and other stuff in the chain weren't fully burned in, and my brain wasn't either.There are literally growing new connections inside the brain, forming the most complex structures in the known universe.This process needs some time.

A few months later I'm considering the Benchmark in comparison as being mid-fi gear.
Still nice to have around due to transportability, jitter immunity and built-in decent headamp, and I need several DACs for several locations respective configurations anyway.

All of my serious listening is through the AQVOX now.
This DAC enabled a kind of personal growth in the audio realm in my case, and I'm very happy about it.
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post #22 of 74
7/14/05 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver :)
Hmmmmmm, so many buttons, and one could actually look at it locally... how much does this thing set one back?
650 Euros.
On inquiry I've got it for an evaluation period of two weeks without paying in advance, seller paid for shipping and possibly even for shipping it back.
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post #23 of 74
7/15/05 at 2:57am
Cosmo,

thanks for the updated comments.

This is very high on my list personally.

I wish it would have a USB driver to enable ASIO, because I'd really hate to buy another sound card just to feed this thing (I'm out of PCI slots anyway).

I wonder if it's possible to modify the ID sting in an existing ASIO USB DAC driver file (like Apogee's) to make it work with other USB DACs that use the same type of receiver chip (assuming most USB DACs)?

BTW, have you tested / rated it's jitter immunity? It's based on Asynchronous resampling as DAC1, but the innards are of course different. I wonder how the two compare in this regard?

I'd really hope for a pure accurate re-clocking DAC though as with asynch resampling the jitter becomes part of the noise of the output signal. I don't think this is a problem with (pseudo) random jitter, but with signal dependent jitter it is of slight concern (at least theoretically). Of course, here I'm thinking of it in non-USB uses.

BTW, I think that the max 48kHz limitation for USB audio is also something that may come back to haunt us (all USB DAC owners) in years to come...
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post #24 of 74
7/15/05 at 5:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyon
BTW, have you tested / rated it's jitter immunity? It's based on Asynchronous resampling as DAC1, but the innards are of course different. I wonder how the two compare in this regard?

I'd really hope for a pure accurate re-clocking DAC though as with asynch resampling the jitter becomes part of the noise of the output signal. I don't think this is a problem with (pseudo) random jitter, but with signal dependent jitter it is of slight concern (at least theoretically). Of course, here I'm thinking of it in non-USB uses.
I'm interested in that too. I'd also love to know if cosmo has an AirPortExpress unit to test this thing with & tell me whether it is quick to sync.
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post #25 of 74
7/15/05 at 6:48am
Thread Starter 
What I don't understand is why these things are so expensive. Professional grade soundcards that are supposedly rivaling CD players costing thousands of Euros sell for about 350 Euros (I'm thinking RME mainly). They are capable of much more and yet they cost almost half?
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post #26 of 74
7/15/05 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman
What I don't understand is why these things are so expensive. Professional grade soundcards that are supposedly rivaling CD players costing thousands of Euros sell for about 350 Euros (I'm thinking RME mainly). They are capable of much more and yet they cost almost half?
- smaller market -> higher price
- soundcards can easily be mass-produced
- soundcards have no expensive enclosure
- soundcards do not have their own powersupply
...
It adds up.
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post #27 of 74
7/15/05 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma
650 Euros.
On inquiry I've got it for an evaluation period of two weeks without paying in advance, seller paid for shipping and possibly even for shipping it back.
€650.00 is truly, genuinely keenly priced for a Class A dac. I feel that I want to get sold on this. Cosmopragma, you've said that you're doing all your serious listening through the Aqvox. Is your system pc-based or stereo components? Have you any reflections on the use of the Aqvox with pure stereo speakers (2 channel) as opposed to headphones? Many thanks for spreading some more sunshine in this thread.
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post #28 of 74
7/15/05 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by catachresis
€650.00 is truly, genuinely keenly priced for a Class A dac. I feel that I want to get sold on this. Cosmopragma, you've said that you're doing all your serious listening through the Aqvox. Is your system pc-based or stereo components? Have you any reflections on the use of the Aqvox with pure stereo speakers (2 channel) as opposed to headphones? Many thanks for spreading some more sunshine in this thread.
Ai, keenly, I keep staring at it. The nice thing is that it does not get more local for me, I'd have zero trouble taking it back should I not like it. I guess I will have to *ahem* personally inspect this thing soon. Cosmo, could you put up some real life photos of the active unit? I'd like to see how the buttons look with "the lights on".
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post #29 of 74
7/15/05 at 9:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver :)
- smaller market -> higher price
- soundcards can easily be mass-produced
- soundcards have no expensive enclosure
- soundcards do not have their own powersupply
...
It adds up.
Hmmm... ok, but assuming I only want to use it for listening to music on my office PC, with HA-1 Mk II and DT 880, would I be better off in investing in AV-710+external DAC or in a RME DIGI96/8 PAD?

I don't give a damn about manufacturers problems with mass-production, expensive enclosures, power supplies and so on and so forth. I'm only interested in sound quality.
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post #30 of 74
7/15/05 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver :)
I'd like to see how the buttons look with "the lights on".
Gee, it's open your eyes day... just found the high-res pictures on the manufacturers HP. Pretty lil' bugger!
It's also bug Cosmo day...
- would you say that the light from the buttons is rather soft in a dark environment, or are they more of the mad blinkenlights variety?
- are the unit's footers easily removed? I just did the math and this DAC should be zero trouble to my Pandafeet setup , I even have
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