In love with AKG K501's - Page 3

I really think we should keep religion out of the discussion.

Um, dude, did you read the title of this thread? Could you not have predicted that this is the direction that this thread would head?

OTOH, it would be nice to just go through this once definitively, and then have every thread that follows just point to that thread. Would take up less disk space. I mean, it's not like youse guys are rehashing anything new...

I guess this would be sort of the "recursive" thread. No, a recursive thread would be one that repeatedly refers to itself... This would be the "macro" thread.

What amuses me about this discussion, whenever it comes up, is that I'm always saying the EXACT same thing as all the "critics" of it: both are great headphones, whichever you choose is great. I never cut either of the headphones in question down, or tell someone they're "wrong" for preferring either. Yet whenever this discussion, about the objective characteristics of these two headphones, occurs, two things happen:

1) OTHER people start freaking out as if there is some flame war erupting, when the people having the discussion are generally quite calm and civil.

2) People start getting defensive or start misinterpreting what people are saying. I don't know how many times I have to say that the K 501 are great headphones before people start realizing that I'm not a HD 600 "defender" or a K 501 "basher." Stating that the K 501 don't have good lower bass, and that the HD 600 has a bump in the upper bass is a pretty darned objective analysis of the two models. Yet somehow it always get interpreted as some cheap shot at the K 501

Hey, this is a discussion forum -- people are going to discuss. Posts that say "oh, no, not this again" do more to ruin a thread than civil discussion.

I'm new here, so maybe my statements are invalid, but it seems like most AKG K501 versus Sennheiser HD600 wars are sparked by one person: MacDef. It happens every time. Whenever I see a post praising the AKG K501's, and, at the end of the post, the author sneaks in a snippet about how they don't have bass rolloff, I ALWAYS (and I'm not exagerating here) see MacDef following up with a sly remark to the effect of, "Yeah, the AKG K501's are great headphones... but I laugh at these silly, ignorant people who claim that they don't lack bass!" Am I wrong in my observation here? It's the same if someone says that the Archos is better than the iPod, or if someone trash talks about the Senn HD600 (Yeah, MacDef, I'm stalking you). It's like the guy takes it personally, and he's prompted to defend his equipment whenever possible. Then everyone gets all riled up and heated. All I'm saying is, MacDef, if you don't want people "freaking out" or getting into flame wars, then why do you insist on sparking the fuel over and over again?

statix: Well, I don't see why MacDEF should stop mentioning his opinion, because he's right. This might not make the K501 (and K401) less enjoyable to its fans, but for people who'd like a more impactful bass with deeper extension, the K240S should be the better choice, as Tim D has already mentioned (Tim: Still happy with my recommendation? I hope so... And what about a little review for the others? ).

flasken: The HA-1 works fairly well with the K501, but I haven't noticed much of an improvement in the bass department compared to my old Maratz integrated amp. And I think you are quite fond of Beyerdynamic sound, so I'd also recommend you to compare the K501 to the K240S. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up buying the K240S instead of the K501...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

It would be rude to say someone's statements are "invalid," but I will say that your assertion is incorrect I'm FAR from the only person to point out the truth about the low bass on the K 501; I'm even farther from being the only person who has this opinion. On the other hand, I will admit to being a stickler for the truth. Which, by the way, is why I'm also quick to point out that the HD 600 aren't perfect either. But you don't seem to read that far


Maybe that's the problem right there


Actually, yes you are.


So maybe you'd prefer that I say "these things suck, and they have no low bass?" Only problem with that is that it wouldn't be true. I admit to responding to claims that the K 501 don't roll off in the bass with the truth that they do. So sue me Or flame me, which appears to be more up your alley based on your response here.

By the way... not that you'll read this, or give it any credence, but the only reason I reply to claims that the K 501 have great low bass is because I want people to understand that the K 501 do lack in the lower bass. As good as the K 501 are, and they are very good, if someone needs a phone that has good low bass, the K 501 won't supply it. That's my only criticism of the K 501, and it's objectively accurate. I've said many, many, many times that if low bass isn't that important to you, the K 501 are GREAT. What is so wrong with this? Read my reviews and comments on the K 501. I've praised them high and low. Explain to me where I'm overly critical of them, or where ANY of this has to do with me being "defensive" as you accused me of being later in your post. What part of "these are both great headphones, but these are a couple flaws of each" is so hard to understand?


sTaTIx, did you even read my statements about the K 501? Do you ever read anything I write with an objective eye? I've never been "defensive" about the HD 600. I give my opinion, just like every other member here does. I criticize the HD 600 for the flaws they have, but I also disagree if I feel someone is misrepresenting them (by the way, I've also defended the K 501 in the same way... you must not have been stalking me too well, or you would have seen that,too). I've criticized the iPod for several things (by the way, I don't even own an iPod :P). Read my comments on ANY component I own. I've pointed out flaws. But I'll also post a correction if someone makes a statement that is either factually inaccurate, or that I disagree with somehow. Why? Because this is a discussion forum. Am I some jerk who treats people like crap? I don't think so. If you want to flame someone for being rude, a troublemaker, a jerk, defensive about things they own, etc., there are plenty of better candidates on Head-Fi... I guess the fact that I've been here a long time, have a lot of posts, and am a mod makes me more visible and easier to jump on?

Whatever the reason, for you to come in here and attack me personally is childish. If you want to discuss headphones, amps, or anything else, great. But don't come in here and start questioning my integrity, my motives, and my goodwill just because for some reason you have some personal beef with me. THAT I take personally.


Sure, it's my fault that other people are overly defensive about this issue

I see... so it's all my fault. God forbid I say anything that might stir up discussion. We wouldn't want that around here. Funny how you're criticizing me for instigating flame wars, when your post was the only one in this entire thread that was a "flame."

I never said that you're the only person who thinks the AKG's lack low bass. I said that you're the only one who seems to consistently post corrective posts in response to anyone's efforts to suggest otherwise. Not to say that you're wrong in being a "purveyor of truth," but sometimes you give me the impression that you seek out posts about the AKG's in particular.

Who's flaming? I said it before that all my comments would be based on limited knowledge of the goings around here at Head-Fi. I'm simply offering insight based on my observations. The term "flame" is such a harsh word; I sometimes wonder if it's used out of context.

Firstly, I'll have to say that I know next to nothing about the AKG's and the HD600's. I can't say that I agree or disagree with what anyone says about each pair's sound quality. However, based on what I've read on the AKG's and its reviews, I don't feel like you're giving them a fair shake. Your tone regarding them is very often similar to, "They're great headphones, except...." or "For the price, they're great!" Even in your very early review of them, I recall you saying something like, "The AKG's are great, especially for the price, but they don't surpass such-and-such in any area." It reminds me of the time I bought a Playstation 2 for $299 and being jealous of my friend who bought a Dreamcast for something like $100 and it had all these tight-ass games for it. I'm feeling better about it now, but back then, I was really in a bad state.

Um, I never called you rude, a jerk, a troublemaker, or anything, nor am I flaming you. Lighten up, will you, we're talking about headphones here.

I didn't even know you were a mod. If I did, I wouldn't have posted what I did.

Yeah, you found me out. I have a personal beef with you because you and I both live in California, and I'm a Raiders fan.

Wow, dude, I don't want things to get this touchy. Let's keep things in perspective here: this is a headphone message board about headphones. I'll be the last member of this board to start instigating flame wars over audio equipment. Got it? Some of you people need to soothe your nerves with some oil painting, or golfing, or music listening. *Snicker*

And here is where it starts spiraling downward...

Not only that, we now have other head-fiers interjecting their headphones of choice. 'lini' mentions the 240S, then 'tomcat' brings up the Beyer 770's, 'joebloggs' talks about his equalized EX70's, 'duncan' still wants his old Sony V6's, 'joelongwood' says the AKG340's are still better than anything currently on the market, maybe someone else says the AT100's or a pair of Stax blow them all away, then 'kwarth' gives some definitive technical explanation of why we are all right or all wrong. (my apologies to anyone I have left out).

Talk about your "prototypical thread"!

AKG has a local distributor in Aussie. Try them first.

Jayel

ROFL...you forgot Audio&Me....where is he?

looks i need to repeat myself

jpelg: Even if I wasn't the first one to mention the (absolutely wonderful!) K240S in this thread <points to Tim D! > and Tomcat would probably vote for AT nowadays, you're probably right. You know, the love of truth makes us do that...

Grinnings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Maybe, being a mod, I end up reading pretty much every thread?


Since you seem to fail to understand how your prior post might be a "flame" in any way... you basically made the following accusations:

1) Every "war" over the these headphones is started by one, and only one, person, me.
2) I "always" make sly remarks accusing people who disagree with me of being silly and ignorant.
3) I always take it "personally" when people criticize certain pieces of equipment.
4) When I respond, I'm not making an objective observation; rather, I'm simply "defending my own equipment."
5) That I purposely "spark the fuel over and over again."

Sounds to me like you were talking about my personality and my motivations for posting. If you don't consider that post to be flaming me, attacking my motives and my integrity -- questioning whether my statements are objective or whether I'm just some insecure jerk who feels the need to defend my past purchases -- and my consideration for other opinions, then maybe you don't really understand what a "flame" is.

By the way, snide comments about how the person you just flamed should "lighten up," how they need to "soothe" their nerves, etc... those are also flames.


P.S. I love these classic covert flaming techniques
1) Flame someone, and if they don't appreciate it say "well, I'm a newbie, so don't take me seriously"
2) Attack someone, then when they take offense, say "lighten up, we're talking about XYZ."

hi lini,

can you or somebody compare the k501, k240s and the k240m for me? i like my k240m very much, and was wondering besides making them easier to drive what improvements were made in the k240s.

i'm looking to get my first nice open cans for home use only. i'm looking at the k501, the hd600, hd580, k240s, the sony f1, and the sony cd3000.

Gee, that's a toughie. The 501s don't have any bass and the 600s don't have anything but bass.