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The Cable Factor - Page 6  

post #76 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by grancasa

I thought the whole point of declaring this a Double Blind Testing Free zone was to eliminate threads like this. So how about shutting a thread down when it gets into DBT, and banning members who continue to bring up DBT's.´
...
BUT NO TALK ABOUT DOUBLE BLIND TESTING!
I was asked to talk again at this thread. At this last posts, I was asked from others to talk about my blind tests, and other people are the ones that are binging their blind tests as their main argument.

By the way, it's easy to keep away from this discussion, just don't follow this thread. As you see, I'm not interfering talking about DBT's in other threads different that this, even not interfering at all in other discussions from you, over particular brands of cables and the like.

Quote:
I don't find these threads particularly helpful, especially when some of the participants don't seem to have much understanding of the science they are bashing and/or promoting, contradict themselves, and not present a very coherent argument.
I'd say you are not talking about me, are you?
post #77 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by Hirsch

You're going to wait a long time for mine. I have no interest in listening to a poorly recorded musical cut that won't prove anything. If you want to illustrate that an expensive cable doesn't sound different than a cheap one, you're going to need to throw an expensive cable into the mix. You're also going to need to take steps to insure that your system is not introducing distortions that might conceal or interact with the cable differences that may be present.
Please read again what my experiment consists of, I guess you didn't understand it very well.

If you did, you should know that there's one file whose content has not been touched at all by my system. And the 4 times recorded one should just sound as filth to your ears.
post #78 of 211
Ricky, you seem to have a very strange assumption:

WHO SAID THAT CABLE DIFFERENCES CAN'T BE MEASURED??????
post #79 of 211
I have found just the concept of 'listening' to cables bothers
some people and the Idea of paying out lots of cash for them
even more so.

So Ricky tests asside what do you actually think the so called high
end[or any specialist manufacturer] cable manufactures are actually up to?
Are they a bunch of con merchants or deluded individuals who
are hell bent on extracting our hard earned bucks from us under
false pretences?

There has to be a demand for something for a business to exist
so what about those customers?

Surely the fact that these companys exist selling such a product
suggests there just may well be something in this?

Or is every purchaser[thousands of people] mistaken in their
beliefs?

Are cable purchasers indulging in an act of faith?

Is it a religeon


Setmenu
post #80 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by grancasa

If you want to talk about psycho-acoustic affects, fine, start a thread about that. If you want to talk about overpricing of cables, start a thread. BUT NO TALK ABOUT DOUBLE BLIND TESTING! Please, read the sign before entering. Just my thoughts
While the idea of banning DBT from a cable forum may be a good one, and I have abided as best I can, the danger (and problem) of this is that you're also banning discussion about a major methodology used to test cable differences from a forum specifically about cables, tweaks, etc. where this methodology may be most relevant. Rather than an outright ban, perhaps an alteration of the thread title of those threads involving DBT (DBT in parentheses?) would be appropriate, so that those who do not want to participate are warned, while on-topic discussion can limp along as best it is able.
post #81 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Please read again what my experiment consists of, I guess you didn't understand it very well.

If you did, you should know that there's one file whose content has not been touched at all by my system. And the 4 times recorded one should just sound as filth to your ears.
Oh, I understood it. Either you recorded the file, or someone else did, which introduces variables from somebody's system into the equation. The farther it gets from your system, the less we know about it.

You're also assuming that cable effects are additive in some way over your process. If all of the damage was done in the recording, why on earth should I expect the differences I would listen for to be there in the first place?
post #82 of 211
Ricky,
I'll try to be gentle. You appear to be a willfully ignorant fool.

This is quite evident from your picking and choosing which posts and portions thereof to which you respond. There is no point in continuing discussion with you since it seems evident you're not seeking to enlarge the scope of your own knowledge.

You appear to be stubbornly clinging to your horribly ignorant and flawed misconceptions and trying to convince others of the same.

This is a waste of time.

While many of us enjoy a good challenge, I think this one is a lost cause folks.
post #83 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by grancasa
Jude, other Moderators,

So how about shutting a thread down when it gets into DBT, and banning members who continue to bring up DBT's.
Again, a wonderful, priceless example of high-end open-mindedness.

Regards,

L.
post #84 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by MacDEF


But using a self-made switch box probably invalidated any conclusions at which you might have arrived. How can you test cables when they're just going through some home-made switch box? If you want to test cables, test cables. You're testing cables and a switch box.

Hello MacDEF,

If Ricky´s (supposedly) simple and passive switchbox is truly detrimental to sound - so as to mask the differences between wires (I confess I have a hard time believing this) - how can we ever evaluate anything? Just think of the amount of different components (passive and active) in CDPs, amplifiers etc.

You made your DBTs with your Max. Would the parts used in your amplifier be of sufficient quality to make a simple switchbox?

Regards,

L.
post #85 of 211
Hirsch,
It depends on what kind of file the original was. The most sensible thing would have been just to rip a CD.

That said, I still don't see much interest in the test. Understandable...

Quote:
Again, a wonderful, priceless example of high-end open-mindedness.
You have no idea how long we have tolerated this guy.
post #86 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bloggs


You have no idea how long we have tolerated this guy.
"We?" So Ricky is not one "you"? How about me?

Very telling...


Regards,

L.
post #87 of 211
I would hate to give the impression that we are a bunch of snobs, especially since my post count belies my actual audio experience, which is rather little I haven't really had the chance to look for sonic differences between cables (hint $$ $$ ) but I trust people when they say that they have already DONE DBT and 'we all heard the difference, so there you are'. Whether *I* will hear cable differences in the future is another story, but I let other people keep their ears with them, and I don't decide for them what they can and can't hear.

This Ricky's first post was a link to a usenet discussion that ridiculed Jude's review of the Cardas Neutral Reference Interconnects. Over the course of 2 (or is it 3 including this one?) flame wars started by Ricky over this subject, it became apparent that this guy doesn't really know what he's talking about, and is impossible to argue with, since he would ignore what you are saying, or apparently concede a point in one post then go right on asserting the opposite in the next.

I would also love to find that cables make no difference--but they DO measure different (resistance, capacitance and inductance per meter are common measurement statistics and are different for each cable design) while Ricky continues to assert that they don't, with nothing to back up this claim at all. If they measure different, why can't they sound different too? Why should we have to put up with him talking our ears off about how all cables are the same, all cables can't be anything BUT the same, etc. etc. when he is just repeating the same pathetic and incoherent arguments over and over again and wasting our time and bandwidth?

YOU, Leporello, on the other hand, seems to be quite a reasonable guy. FWIW, I agree that the same kinds of switching mechanisms are involved in both the Max and a switchbox. However, if you're not hearing differences you should look for flaws in your equipment instead of proclaiming a conclusion straight away. There are several flaws in Ricky's equipment:

1. The switchbox (may or may not matter)
2. The cables (he hasn't got anything that anybody thinks would be much superior to stock)
3. The rest of the system (not up to snuff)

There will always be popular and unpopular people in any place. The thing is Ricky is unpopular not because he holds a minority viewpoint, but because he's been acting like an utter *******. We will welcome anyone, whatever special viewpoint they may have, as long as those views are presented reasonably and (s)he is open to other people's views.
post #88 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bloggs
Ricky, you seem to have a very strange assumption:

WHO SAID THAT CABLE DIFFERENCES CAN'T BE MEASURED??????
I'd say another poster did, and he was the one I was replying to. Last time, he said:

"But yet you continue to ignore the fact that there are plenty of things humans can hear that science cannot accurately describe, let alone measure. "

All in the context of audible cable differences, of course. For more examples of his assertions, go backwards in the thread.
post #89 of 211
Ricky, are you deliberately mixing up the issues?

Issue no.1: Do cables measure different if they sound different?
Answer: in most cases probably yes but there may be measurements we are missing out on.

Issue no.2--THE ONE I'M ADDRESING--do the cables out there actually measure different?

OF COURSE THEY DO!

You repeatedly make the argument that effectively goes something like 'cables all measure the same, so they can't possibly sound different'.

e.g.
Quote:
You seem to think that way, but indeed it's extraordinary claiming to hear things that are not measurable, since it has been never scientifically proven.
Yeah right.
post #90 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by setmenu

So Ricky tests asside what do you actually think the so called high
end[or any specialist manufacturer] cable manufactures are actually up to?
Are they a bunch of con merchants or deluded individuals who
are hell bent on extracting our hard earned bucks from us under
false pretences?
I'd say so, but it doesn't happen just with cables. At audio segment, there are many examples of this: green pens, cd degaussers or demagnetizers, bybee filters, cable holders, power cords, etc.

Happens also in many other non audio areas, but I think the audio one must be of the most profitable.

Quote:

There has to be a demand for something for a business to exist
so what about those customers?
Demand created by the manufacturers.

Quote:

Surely the fact that these companys exist selling such a product
suggests there just may well be something in this?
It suggests that there are too many unfounded myths over audio, and many people willing to believe in these.

Quote:
Are cable purchasers indulging in an act of faith?
Is it a religeon
Could be something of that style, but I guess you won't agree.
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