Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › post your grado mods....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

post your grado mods.... - Page 275

post #4111 of 5267
thanks all of you for your comments!
post #4112 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

thanks all of you for your comments!

 

Not a problem at all.  We all just hope that there are a few electronic copies of the post and pictures made - in the event this site crashes and the recovery of the backup is impossible.  One never knows ... :eek: 

post #4113 of 5267

Did anyone else see the Facebook post by Grado Labs about the RS3 prototypes they found while cleaning up the shop? They used a shorter cup with a darker wood (Mahogany I'm guessing, since that is what they do the other wood cups with). Apparently they used the pink drivers? Anyone know of anything else about them as far as tone quality they gave?

post #4114 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by PintoDave View Post
 

Did anyone else see the Facebook post by Grado Labs about the RS3 prototypes they found while cleaning up the shop? They used a shorter cup with a darker wood (Mahogany I'm guessing, since that is what they do the other wood cups with). Apparently they used the pink drivers? Anyone know of anything else about them as far as tone quality they gave?

We should email them asking if they're willing to sell it:ph34r:

post #4115 of 5267

They actually gave them away to a "JW Sanderman" for making a Grado promotional video on youtube (http://youtu.be/8-01SURPHP8)

post #4116 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by PintoDave View Post
 

Did anyone else see the Facebook post by Grado Labs about the RS3 prototypes they found while cleaning up the shop? They used a shorter cup with a darker wood (Mahogany I'm guessing, since that is what they do the other wood cups with). Apparently they used the pink drivers? Anyone know of anything else about them as far as tone quality they gave?

 

I saw the picture in another place.  I should have snagged a copy of it.  I believe the inside of the headband was signed by Joe Grado, too.  Does the RS3, mean it comes down the range a bit?  Lower than the RS2, but higher than the SR-325, I'd guess.

post #4117 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
 

 

Interestingly i have stopped modding grados as i am really happy now.

 

- and i made and had a prototype of a CLOSED grado running with no sound degradation compared to an open one so now i know how to do it but have to improve my manufacturing skills to build something i can post here.

 

wow. thanks for posting all of that and sharing your research. i love how grado mods continue to evolve. looks like you found an interesting way to improve the soundstage, always a plus when it comes to grados. 

 

really wish we had some better way to get drivers for these custom builds. no one seems really satisfied with the magnum/Turbulent drivers. 

 

i'd also like to hear more details about your closed prototype... it's kind of hard to imagine how this is done while keeping grado sound signature. 

 

think i'm going to buy a PS500 for now while i'm looking for parts to build a copy of the GGG (GermanGuy Grados)  :D 


Edited by austonia - 10/20/13 at 1:08am
post #4118 of 5267
yes, the drivers are the only really limiting part for further improvement (as long as you are not willing to buy a ps1000 to extraxt the drivers).

i have some other constructions in mind, but ... the drivers.

for example i made a prototype with four drivers, two on each side, the second driver where normally the mesh is.

the idea behind is the same as used for example in the dynaudio compound loudspeaker series:

because the second driver is moving in parallel and in the same way as the primary driver, the primary driver can now work within a constant volume, no air compression needed. this lowers the resonance frequency of the driver system, result is a driver system with a lower minimum bass frequency, so extending the bass range.

also then it is possible to adjust the damping factor by adding a potentiometer to adjust the signal ratio between primary and rear driver. very interesting, you can dynamically adjust the bass level.

another idea is to build a super grado driver out of seven drivers for each side, so you have the central, inner driver and six drivers around, which means the central driver transmitting the whole spectrum but the ring of six drivers around in addition builds something like the bass - midrange driver - together a coaxial driver system.

but you need 14 drivers in total ...
post #4119 of 5267

Ha, that's silly...

 

Although, a working prototype would probably earn a statue erected in your honor. That'd be some serious engineering!

post #4120 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post


for example i made a prototype with four drivers, two on each side, the second driver where normally the mesh is.

the idea behind is the same as used for example in the dynaudio compound loudspeaker series:


because the second driver is moving in parallel and in the same way as the primary driver, the primary driver can now work within a constant volume, no air compression needed. this lowers the resonance frequency of the driver system, result is a driver system with a lower minimum bass frequency, so extending the bass range.
 

This sounds very interesting.

How does it sound? 

I'd love to see the prototype or even just hear about your impressions on how it sounds. 

post #4121 of 5267
i made this prototype by just combining two of my modded headphones, this was very easy as all the parts are compatible (filter rings), and then i used two portable amplifiers to separately drive the primary and rear drivers and to adjust volume and the balance between primary and rear drivers.

so it works, but after some testing i reassembled the headphones as they were before.

one problem would be the length, a two driver housing with mesh is about 8 cm, so for a final one i would use something like a folded or rectangular structure.

for me this was more a prove of concept at that moment.

to really design, optimize and finetune a headphone like the last one i posted, at least i need about two month of nearly daily one or two hours for changing or modifying parts and then listening and listening again.

all the wooden parts for example are drilled and shaped out of solid blocks of balsa wood, always in parallel to the structure of the wood, you always need two parts, they always must or should be identical in size and shape, so this is really time consuming (but i think worth the effort).

the concept itself is promissing, sound was ok, but nothing special, but without building and optimizing the system from scratch you can not expect more.
Edited by GermanGuy - 10/20/13 at 3:56pm
post #4122 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
 

seems to be posting time - so i post some information about what i did last year to make custom bowls.

 

after buying my first grado (SR225i) last year or the year before i tried to improve bass and comfort by making my own bowls to improve the sound without modding the sr225i itself.

 

after reading a lot of articles here i thought

- that socks are a must

- the tape mod is nice as basis but should be thought to an end

- i was also inspired by tyll hertsens post on innerfidelity about standard grado and modded grado bowls

 

so i had the idea

 

- to put something around standard bowls

- to build something to put around the bowls to extend them in size

- to use socks to cover whatever i put around

 

after a lot of testing and listening here are the results - my custom grado bowl extension set:

 

 

it consists of different rings for the extension of the bowls, the sound tuning rings,  the i call them "sound tuning chips" (that were inspired by tyll hertsens article on innerfidelity and his measurement and implication of bass response and size, i,e. diameter and circumference of the bowls):

 

 

i also tested different socks (very thin, normal, thick), in general the thicker the socks, the more bass, but this is achieved by absorbing the highs and loosing detail, precision and overall sound quality, so as result i only used very thin socks (thin socks size 39-42).

 

to explain the different parts, here are some samples:

 

as replacement for the tape mod the sound tuning rings can be used by just putting them around a standard bowl:

 

 

left - the first ring is made out of felt 2mm thick - very homogenous sounding, adds some warmth to the sound, so for example slightly more bass, less harsh highs

 

right - the second ring is made out of two layers of strong tape - improves the bass but as there is no glue between bowl and ring slightly less effective than tape directly glued to the bowl.

 

This is a bowl i made especially for the SR225i:

 

 

the bowl is extended by a bowl extension ring made out of felt 6mm thick, linear shape and 4 sound tuning ships between bowl and extension ring, a sock wrapped around the extension ring:

 

Extension Ring:

 

here the extension ring is made out of felt 6mm thick. the thicker the felt here, the more the bass is improved. to make the ring i cutted a piece of fitting length, 5mm higher than the bowl. i then cut a piece of felt starting at the height of the bowl on the inner side of the felt ring so that as result there is a linear shape, the inner side of the extension ring so gets wider with the height.

 

Shape of the Extension RIng::

 

- if you just use the felt ring as it is (no shape), the higher the extension ring, the more the bass, bass gets boomy and you start to get bass resonances

- a linear shape, as you see (sorry for my limited english to exactly descibe what i want to say) prevents the bass from getting boomy and resonant, the resulting extended bowl also sounds very grado-like

- i also tried a parabolic shape, this shape of the inner side of the extension ring gives you the best soundstage but more sounding like a standard headphone, not a grado. also the extension ring gets very thin with a parabolic shape, so the socks applied will result in a deformation of the extension ring

 

Sound tuning chips:

 

inspired by the article on innerfidelity were tyll hertsens had the idea, that resonance frequencies were related to the diameter and so the circumference of the bowl, i had the idea

 

- to put small plastic pieces at constant distances, symetrically

- or different distances, not symetrically

- to have areas of different reflection in the grado bowl

- and so different ares of acustic behaviour and absorbtion

- and so killing resonances circulating inside the bowls

 

and this really works

- the hole sound gets cleaner, the chips especially kill resonances of the higher frequencies, the highs get cleaner, more resonant free and not that harsh but without getting a warmer sound

- due the sound tuning chips also the bass gets cleaner but also the chips very slightly limit the lowest possible bass resonance frequency the bowl can transmit, but together with an bowl extension ring this is absolutely no problem as the effect is very small compared to the bass improvement due to the bowl extension ring.

 

This is a bowl i made especially for the SR325is:

 

 

it consists of a grado bowl, a felt sound tuning ring, 4 sound tuning chips (symetrically), a bowl extension ring 1cm higher than the bowl 8mm thick with parabolic shape, and an i call it "soundstage ring".

 

in the case of the sr325 the sound tuning ring made out of felt 2mm thick acustically couples the bowl with the extension ring, the felt sound tuning ring here also tunes the sound to the warmer, homogenous side as the sr325is highs are more pronounced than the sr225i (this ring was not nessesary for the sr225i bowl posted before).

 

i already explained the function of the sound tuning chips, here they are used because of the same reason.

 

the bwol extension ring here is 8mm thick so that the bass is more improved than with 6mm and also the parabolic shape is more effective.

 

the "sound stage ring" prevents the extension ring from beeing deformed when you put the socks around, so the ring takes care that the soundstage benefit because of the parabolic shape will not be eliminated by the socks deforming the extension ring.

 

also the soundstage ring works like an additional "tape mod" ring so further improving bass depth.

 

in this case i put socks separately around the bowl extension ring and the soundstage ring.

 

 

something about wrapping socks around the rings:

 

i tried a lot of different ways to put the socks around the rings or the hole extended bowl, aslo i tried the original grado bowl with socks (not worth to mention or to listen to), but after all the tests there are only two ways i used the socks:

 

 

different kinds of using the socks:

 

 

putting the socks around the bowl extension ring and/or the soundstage ring:

 

- the resulting extended bowls are grado-like sounding, preferable for smaller heights of the bowl extension ring, much better sound stage width and slightly better soundstage depth, much more comfortable

 

putting the socks around the complete extended bowl so that the socks partly close the bowl on the ears side:

 

- the resulting extended bowls are more like a non-grado headphone sounding, but with good soundstage wide and depth, nice imaging and extended bass response. my idea here was that applying the socks this way the socks form a chamber for the ear and also a defined volume and room for reflections and this really works.

 

btw i was amazed that the new AKG K812 has the same style of "bowls".

 

How to test and build:

 

In general i put all parts together for initial listening

 

- when i tought a specific extended bowl would be worth listening i put the parts together using small needles

- when i had decided to finally build a specific extended bowl i used superglue to  glue grado bowl, sound tuning chips and sound tuning ring together (only superglue on both sides of the sound tuning ships)

- to glue sound tuning ring, bowl extension ring and soundstage ring together, i used a special glue based on rubber and made to repair clothes, keeps flexible, is heat resistant up to 120 degree celsius, the hole bowl can be washed.

 

for my next post i will prepare some drawings how to build this closed grado version i mentioned before.

 

You're doing some great work, amazing stuff!

post #4123 of 5267

just decided not to be lazy but instead start to post other mods i made.

 

this is my "to go" sr225i grado i usually carry with me to use it for example in my office (single room for me alone, so no problem to use a grado):

 

 

 

i replaced the grado cable sheath with shoe laces (ADIDAS neon yellow, i really like all this neon colors):

 

 

 

i cut the original cable and then used a 3.5mm jack and a 3.5mm connector to convert the part cut into a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adaptor, so not waisting it:

 

 

as you can see i did not mod the driver side, wanted to have something like a minimum mod. but nevertheless and how to say the music here plays inside:

 

 

to improve the overall sound quality and especially bass depth i vented all holes and made two small sleeves out of balsa wood and implanted them into the left and right cup.

 

the sound and bass quality is greatly improved but somewhat limited by the plastic housing, but i wanted to have at least one grado that looks rather original, and as long as you listen with low to medium volume level, the sr225i is great sounding, very clean and clear, great bass extension, love it for example for organ music or techno.

 

P.S.  to also improve my resistance against further modding i used more than enough superglue when reassembling the headphone cups.


Edited by GermanGuy - 10/21/13 at 3:48pm
post #4124 of 5267

forgot to mention  that the sound stage rings are made out of foam rubber, 2mm thick.

post #4125 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
 

to improve the overall sound quality and especially bass depth i vented all holes and made two small sleeves out of balsa wood and implanted them into the left and right cup.

 

 

Your mention of the balsa wood has me curious.  Did you just buy a flat piece, then wet the piece so you could curve it into a circle and then let it dry into place like that?  Or, if you had another method, I'd be interested in understanding how it was done.  This kind of configuration makes the Grado have a "sleeper" appearance as it looks nearly stock, but others are not aware of the hidden wooden liners inside the plastic cups. Great idea!

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › post your grado mods....