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about cables

post #1 of 81
5/19/02 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
See this thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...6%26filter%3D0
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post #2 of 81
5/19/02 at 9:27pm
So, Ricky, according to the IP addresses, it appears you're the first poster (KikeG) in that Usenet thread you're pointing us to. Given that, let me ask you this:

So....ummm....like.....does that mean you didn't like my review?

And still to come (and I'm sure you're going to love this one) is my review of a CD player that happens to be very expensive.

See ya then!
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post #3 of 81
5/19/02 at 9:38pm

BOSE LOVERS!

Yeah! I totally agree with what they are saying. There is no way one cable sounds different from another. I think someone slipped some drugs in Jude's drink. I guess they got me too, because I heard the exact same thing Jude did.
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post #4 of 81
5/19/02 at 9:47pm
Thanks for that, Ricky
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post #5 of 81
5/19/02 at 10:09pm
Ummm, that's wrong. First year high school chemistry or physics can explain why different cables would lose more signal than others.
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post #6 of 81
5/19/02 at 11:53pm
probably a Best City or Circuit Buy salesman

Jude, based on that very review, I have ordered a 0.5 meter pair of the Neutrals. (I gotta know!)

Keep 'em coming, I enjoy the heck out of your reviews!
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post #7 of 81
5/20/02 at 12:11am

Re: about cables

Quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
See this thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...6%26filter%3D0
and? what's your point? "Hi, my name's rickey, and i wanted to let you know that me and my friends were making fun of you. nya-nya!" good one, smart-stuff!

You know, if Jude's using words that are too long for you to understand, you could always send him an e-mail asking him to explain them for you in simpler terms.

by the way, I for one would like to know what sort of audio rigs you and your obtuse friends own, and what cables you've auditioned. or are you just a bunch of posers talking about stuff you don't understand?
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post #8 of 81
5/20/02 at 1:27am
So Ricky,
I take it that you're not capable of hearing the differences for one reason or another. Perhaps many reasons. Are you trying to convince others that there are no differences because you are incapable of perceiving them?
Cheers!
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post #9 of 81
5/20/02 at 1:47am

Re: about cables

Quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
See this thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...6%26filter%3D0
Read it. Understand your reasoning. Now, understand ours. Where's your proof when the proof is in the listening?

NGF
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post #10 of 81
5/20/02 at 2:17am
Come on, people, no feeding the trolls.
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post #11 of 81
5/20/02 at 2:49am
If ignorance truly is bliss, ALL them boys are on cloud nine. I'll NOT listen without MY Crescendos!!!!! Not to mention my $700 power cables.
That entire thread just sounds like the MANY voices of inexperience. In the evolution of audio, I would venture to say that those boys are at the bottom of the food chain!!!
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post #12 of 81
5/20/02 at 9:55am
That was a google search of a thread in rec.audio.tech, which is a Usenet group, for those who haven't experienced one. One of the raisons d'etre of private moderated web-based forums such as this is to get away from the ...errr...morons... that have a tendency to propagate in an unmoderated Usenet environment and choke off otherwise useful discussion.
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post #13 of 81
5/20/02 at 10:38am
not suprised.
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post #14 of 81
5/20/02 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jude

So....ummm....like.....does that mean you didn't like my review?
Well, I find hard to believe that just a cable change could make such a difference, but I'm convinced that you really believe it, so, no blame on you. What I feel really disgusting is the interview to George Cardas, in my opinion this man has no sense of shame with all the things he says, he's just a charlatan talking BS and he knows it and makes profit of it.

Quote:

So, Ricky, according to the IP addresses, it appears you're the first poster (KikeG) in that Usenet thread you're pointing us to.
You're right, even my e-mail address is the same.

Quote:

probably a Best City or Circuit Buy salesman
Quote:

Ummm, that's wrong. First year high school chemistry or physics can explain why different cables would lose more signal than others.
Not at such lenghts of cables and such frequencies and amplitudes of signals.

Me and many of the posters at the rec.audio.tech newsgroup are audio/electric engineers by studies and profession. I actually work as a programmer, but some of the newsgroup repliers are respected audio professionals, some with many years of experience in this area. Even if you are not one of these, but have a bit of knowledge and common sense, will realize that some claims are absurd.

Quote:

You know, if Jude's using words that are too long for you to understand, you could always send him an e-mail asking him to explain them for you in simpler terms.
What I'd like to know is what are the real scientifical basis that explain the advantages of these cables, what makes them superior to a normal cable. The properties of a cable are defined by basic scientific terms: resistance, capacitance, inductance, and interference pickup. There's no skin effect at audio frecuencies, there's no inductance at audio frecuencies, there are no resonances in cables (I guess he meant stationary waves, as talking about resonance in a cable is just absurd). Capacitance is negigible at such frecuencies and short lengths. Any decent shielded cable has good noise rejection for audio purposes at home environments, and the best shielding is not very difficult to achieve. There's no distortion on cables. If these cables do something to the signal, it can only be degrading it, as any non-crap cable won't do anything to the signal. Just ask some qualifyed engineer os physicist, and he'll tell you the same.

It can also be easily proved on a laboratory, measuring and analyzing the signal that enters in the cable and the signal at the other side of the cable. This can be done even at your home, if you have a good sound card (I'm not talking about Creative Crap cards) and suitable software.

Yes, they sound different to you, that's true, but that has an explanation. Have you ever heard about placebo effect? One of the posters at these audio newsgroups, has showed in practice (going to their homes) by means of serious blind tests, to many audiophiles, that all the differences they heard were on their heads. It is a curious effect how, when the listener doesn't know what cable he's listening to, is incapable of telling a regular cheap cable from a megabuck one.

There are lots of snake oil in consumer audio. Special power cords are even more absurd than expensive cables. How can the power that goes to your wallplug through meters of cheap unshielded electric cable, be improved at any way by a small piece of thick shielded cable at its ending?

About the Google newsgroup thread, you can also participate in it if you want. There is also a moderated audio related newsgroup, rec.audio.high-end. If you read and/or participate in these and other audio related newsgroups, you'll learn many things. I do.
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post #15 of 81
5/20/02 at 5:06pm
Cables to make a difference and if you don't believe us try this...

Go to home depot and get the cheapest, smallest diameter wire you can. For real giggles make it aluminium.

Get a decent connector and some solder and make you an interconnect using this cable.

Then go get one of the cheap monster cables (I suggest the interlink 200s or 250s, same cable different plugs).

Plug the monster into one channel and your DIY job into the other.

After you do this come back and apologize because you *WILL* hear a difference no matter what your system is!

Now, would I buy a $300 IC... Hell no... Not unless my system was $$$$$$$$ then I imagine the difference could be noticeable.

The rules about cables (saw these posted somewhere):

1. The best cable is no cable. But this isn't feasible.
2. The *ideal* cable is transparant. Again, this isn't 100% feasable.
3. A cable can't *add* anything but it sure as hell can take away! The test above will show that!

I used to be a skeptic too but then I heard the difference doing something similar to what is listed above.

I also was skeptical about power cables but now I'm starting to come around on that too even though I haven't tried it yet.

A good cable, power or ic or otherwise will attempt to filter out any interference and drain it off back to the source. (though not all great cables do this).

Another point about cables is they have capicitance. This will result in high-frequency loss. The ideal cable has 0 capicitance... but again, not feasible.

Really, give it a try before dissmissing it all together.

And as always if *you're* happy with your setup including cables, why spend the cash to change it?

Another point about $$$ cables... I think the law of dimishing returns is it a fairly low dollar value for ICs (like $50-100). Anything past that is spending dollars to gain pennies. Hell, it may even be lower than that!
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