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Why does the last end of the power cable matter so much? - Page 5

post #61 of 66
means nothing

every manufacturer who says line cords don't matter will back it up with their own graphs and science,those who claim they do make a difference will have graphs every bit as pretty and have their own science for why it is so.

this is called marketing and opinion and if you want to prove a thing you can find a test that validates your prejudices either pro or con.

In the end it is up to each individual user to determine if there is any audible improvement or if this is just a placebo.
This area of audio tweaking is one that has very little middle ground and some of the most heated arguments are the "cables mean nothing" and "cables mean everything" camps.

It is my opinion it does not matter and those who want to purchase high end cables will and those who feel they add nothing will not.
I fall into that small middle area that says cables do have an effect on performance and not all upgrade are for the better.
I listen and decide if something suits ME or even if there is noticeable change and if so is this for the better or just a change and not an improvement at all.
An open mind sprinkeled with suspician is a good thing,a closed mind on either side of any issue is an argument.
post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKi
[er]
Now if something sounds different, you have to be able to measure the difference otherwise it’s a bit hard to argue why it is different (is that a fair enough statement?)
you might not be able to look at spec's and know what it will sound like but if something is identical in everyway measurable to something else you'd imaging it to sound the same (right?) and with most everything else there are measurements and specifications that you can get on components or systems that show they are different from something else and you should expect to hear a difference and can use these numbers to state why they are different even if you don’t understand how the numbers ultimately influence the sound
But I have yet to see anything to back up the idea of power cables effects on the end sound in some measurable way....
Again, blatantly false. Many sources, amps, and cables measure exactly the same, or close enough. But they sound quite different. But i'm sure you knew that already
Might not have made it clear enough, but if they sound very different and you measurements are coming up the same then you obviously (to me anyway) aren't measuring the right specification that is responsible to the difference

Taking headphone amps and sources for an example; just your basic THD+N, SNR and crosstalk might not show any difference then there are plenty of other measurements you could do that might show up a difference somewhere else as not everyone would also show input/output impedances, square wave response, frequency response, slew rate, PSRR, etc.

I’ve yet to see anything that has been proven to make a difference (imo) not being able to be backed up by some measurements and theory to why it does, but nothing on power cables apart from maybe when the wire gauge is too small for high power devices

I am all for adequately sized power cables with proper ground setups between equipment, but $100+ for just a cable is organised crime
post #63 of 66
Quote:
I’ve yet to see anything that has been proven to make a difference (imo) not being able to be backed up by some measurements and theory to why it does, but nothing on power cables apart from maybe when the wire gauge is too small for high power devices
closed mind ?

By your reasonaing we should all just plop a TL072CP op-amp into all out audio gear and have done with it.they measure to the limits of test equipment afterall.

But the funny thing with humans is we hear things not measured by equipment.This is not a test and measurements forum but an audio forum with emphasis on the word "audio" which means to hear.

If you want to build a system solely on how it measures go for it.You will have the system you deserve.I will continue to listen and decide on the merits if a thing is or is not an improvement to me personally.


The one place where measurements and actual listening tests have a disconnect is the actual music.No steady stae or even varying test tone truly duplicates the moment to moment unpredictability of the dynamic music signal so my baseling has always been to measure for blatant errors which are more readily seen on a scope then tweak by ear to finalise.
This last is the most important because if measurements alone were to be used then a resistor resists and a capacitor is reactive so any part since it measures the same should sound the same and any old generic part could be thrown in without any audible effect.
Not !

When it comes to wires there IS audible difference depending on the wire composition AND wire geometry.These audible differences can and are easily demonstrated and repeatadly but only if the system has the resolution to even be effected by small changes.Have you doubters ever actually compared 'wires' in a real world system or are you all just parroting something you read ?

Beleive nothing without a personal test and go into any such test with an open mind or preconceptions will only be reinforced proving nothing.Anything wanting to be proved or disproved will be if you are closed minded.

"yeah,I heard a difference but it was NOT the cable ,it was the phase of the moon or the humidity level or maybe I didn't get enough sleep last night or....."

Am I personally anal about wires and their quality ?
That is a big NO and I will never spend a large sum for any cable or wire,mostly due to my cheap and DIY nature but of the audibility of cables i have no doubts.All change does not mean good change and the most blatant differences are usually because the design is comprimised-intentionally so-making it "stand out" among fairly even but good competition.

I will not slam someone who has the funds for experimentation even if I personally think it is flat out nuts to throw a $200 cable on a $500 amp (Nuts ! Nuts I tell ya ! Did i tell you it is nuts ? )

the placebo effect is not one to be discounted and is every bit as "real' to those who want it to be as the other side with their measured "no way" attitude.

As usual,just my opinion and backed up by my own listening experiences over time with my own perosnal set of preconceptions and prejudices

rickamundus rex-wired and ready for action
post #64 of 66
I found this especially relevant.The fact that the person heard no difference in his own system but did notice change in other systems :

Quote:
Resolution #3 - Play with power cords.

This is the one area that I have completely neglected. I have been an avid cable-trader of both the speaker and interconnect varieties. Anyone who doubts the benefits of finding the perfect match between component and cable has either never tried, or has ears of tin and should look into a different hobby. Calm down boy and get off that soapbox.

Anyway, back to power cords. I have experienced the benefits of these second hand though other people's systems, but never in my own. They say the amplifier is usually a good place to start. A good cord can really improve bass quality and dynamics. Unfortunately, my current amplifier, my beloved Conrad-Johnson MV55, has a captive cord. Perhaps a good reason for an upgrade. However, my preamp, transport, DAC, and phono stage all are good candidates for a cord transplant. Among other things, you can expect to gain quieter backgrounds and better micro and macrodynamics. I think I’ll start with the preamp and go from there. There are lots of good options out there between $100-$300. Practically pocket change in this hobby.
From this page-
http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200201.htm

THIS...........

http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200202.htm

........is how I also feel about buiding a system by measurement alone.
post #65 of 66
Part ll

http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200301.htm

not always about the measuring when it is humans that are added to the equation
post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKi][er
. . . . but $100+ for just a cable is organised crime
I love it when people make categorical judgments like this. It makes me laugh.
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