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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 364

post #5446 of 19952
10/25/08 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludoo View Post
I will go against the established wisdow of this thread (and my wallet too), and shock you with the following declaration:

properly damped bass-heavy HP-3 are better phones than damped YH-100

At least mines are, against all the different damping schemes I tried on the YH-100. The HP-3 have more soundstage, more deep bass, less forward and sweeter mids. And they have a kind of black noiseless background from which the music springs, which the YH-100 have not.

In fact, my HP-3 held their own (at least for my tastes) against toni's damped NADs, with less raw power but a more balanced, mellow and pleasant sound.

The YH-100 on the other hand suffer from the worst earcups design I ever saw, possibly worse than the awful square T20v2 cups. The space inside the cups is thin, cluttered by posts, the vents are not on the back of the cups but towards the baffle, so they are difficult to damp, and the unnecessarily large cups/baffles leave a lot of empty space around the driver which needs to be filled somehow. And to add insult to injury, the back of the cups is not flat. It seems that the more Yamaha tried to design their phones, the worse they performed.

The net result of all this is the YH-100 take much less damping than the HP-3, and still somehow manage to have a touch too much treble and some midbass resonances. I am at my 4th damping, will keep trying but I don't think they will get that much better.

And to answer a question by wualta that disappeared in what I guess was a crash/restore of the whole forums, I am not using any glue as the pressure alone keeps everything in place, so much so that on the felts there are pressure marks from the back of the earcups and the driver's edges.
Now Ludoo, reading that makes me absolutely elated! I don't have my proper amps finished yet, so I'm not going to mod my YH-3s until after I get those amps built and rack up some time on them. I need to move my old original Magnavox console from the basement into my office and place my Uamaha CR-620 in it so I can start listening to the YH-3 more often as it is now, the Yamaha is in the DR on the other console.

Yeah, I'm an old console freak. I have three right now, two are twins and the original Magnavox. A fourth was sacrificed since it was beyond repair, but it's design was so unique I plan to build it again, but larger so it will work with Fonken speakers and the larger NABU chassis and standard TT sizes. Unfortunately, our house is rather small and the SWMBO has some pretty strict decor rules...
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Yamaha Stereo Headphones
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Fostex T50RP Closed Ear Stereo Headphones
post #5447 of 19952
10/25/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dBel84 View Post
Very interesting turn of events. Now I am beginning to wonder why I like my HP50As as much as I do, are they akin to Ludo's ? I do know that they had better bass than the HP3s that I mailed to ludoo but I put that down to damping.....hmmm

and I have a pair of YH-100 on their way - I did like the sound of the undamped YH100s , they had a sense of such potential, we will see how far I can go.


wise words indeed ..dB
Heh. I know it's a mantra some are repeating all the time, but the longer I am in audiophile hobby the more evident this becomes to me.

This difference is especially evident if music tastes and listening habits are different.
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post #5448 of 19952
10/25/08 at 2:05pm
hmm, maybe i should try out one of these so called yamahas.

i have been enjoying my PMBs a lot, and allthough they arent on the same level as my stats, they sound wonderfully relaxing and smooth; the perfect sound for hours of casual listening, thus becoming my favourite workphones.

i need to try some other orthos, to see if any are as good as, or better than the pmb to my ears, so if anyone feels like parting with a yamaha(any kind really... ok maybe except for the hp/yh-2), shoot me a PM
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post #5449 of 19952
10/25/08 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust2D View Post
The drivers on T20 and T50 are rumored to be the same. The cups should be similar as well with only difference being how vents are covered. T50 has felt glued to the vent and T20 might have foam in the cup like the old T20, or something like that.

If pads are the key here, I suggest trying T20RP pads, since they are as flat as new T50 pads if not flatter.
I well T50 is different from T20, larger and pads are different. Here are some picture.







So no way T20 pads would fit on T50 but looks like there is no need to put them on as T50 pads are as think as T20 as the pictures show.
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post #5450 of 19952
10/25/08 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust2D View Post
It's all in the ear of the headphoneholder so to say when you get a point of quality that is above mid-fi.
Wise words, especially what you wrote later about listening habits and music tastes. But, but, some things are pretty much universal: Tony listens to music that is the exact antythesis to mine, and his "listening frame of mind" is the opposite to mine too. But both of us had our jaws hanging open when we listened to the final damping of his NADs. And both of us agreed that Kabeer's HP-3 and mines had the same sound signature with slightly different flavours. Etc. So I won't give up on the YH-100 yet, but as it stands after 6 different dampings (not casual, reasoned each one of them) they are much inferior to the HP-3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dBel84 View Post
Very interesting turn of events. Now I am beginning to wonder why I like my HP50As as much as I do, are they akin to Ludo's ? I do know that they had better bass than the HP3s that I mailed to ludoo but I put that down to damping.....hmmm
Oh God, just what we need: an HP-50 that sounds like the bass-heavy HP-3. And an HP-3 that sounds more like a YH-1 than like any of the other 3/50s I have heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjarnetv View Post
if anyone feels like parting with a yamaha(any kind really... ok maybe except for the hp/yh-2), shoot me a PM
And if you feel like parting with your HP/YH-2, shoot me a PM.
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post #5451 of 19952
10/25/08 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludoo View Post
But both of us had our jaws hanging open when we listened to the final damping of his NADs. And both of us agreed that Kabeer's HP-3 and mines had the same sound signature with slightly different flavours. Etc. So I won't give up on the YH-100 yet, but as it stands after 6 different dampings (not casual, reasoned each one of them) they are much inferior to the HP-3.
Oh yes, I agree. There are mostly objective qualities in headphone sound: bass extension, tonal balance, power handling and many others, but when this all is equal we still somehow like one of them more then the other one, and this is even more so when you get to speaker land, got know I learned this the hard way...

I actually would love to hear an HP-3 that you like so much, and you like you to hear my HP-50S so this way we can understand what we talking about. By the way Pro 30 I ended up selling for exactly the reasons that you described, but I disliked the your mod as well, so go figure.
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post #5452 of 19952
10/25/08 at 5:24pm
I guess all this falls in line with my thoughts of the SFI. Some really dislike them, others like me find them great and I've yet to meet a Yamaha I'd trade with. I haven't heard a Yammy 3 or 50 yet but I found the 1,2 and 100 drab and uninteresting. They have a nice freely flowing deep bass which I really like, the rest of the audio range does nothing for me.

I guess I'm not a big Yammy fan. I prefer the NAD and SFIs every time although I do plan to buy an xx-3 or 50 at some stage based on Ludos impressions. Higher up the range doesn't always mean better sound.

I'm still waiting for Tomek to post his full findings on the latest YH-100 mod to see how that pans out.

SFI forever!!!
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post #5453 of 19952
10/25/08 at 5:48pm
Here is a full Tomek guide to YH-100 modding as emailed to me for upload:



















I name it the EGG mod, care to guess why?
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post #5454 of 19952
10/25/08 at 6:12pm
a great and easy to follow guide!
the bitum material seems like a genious way to improve the plastic cups for cheap bastards who cant afford to make new ones out of wood or metal
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post #5455 of 19952
10/25/08 at 6:22pm
I just bought a YH-3 yesterday, so hopefully that fixes the bad karma I got from buying on impulse a set of MB Quart 400 from that auction site, while perusing it for PMB orthos earlier this week. Neither has arrived yet, so hopefully the close proximity of my ortho purchase helps to mask the mark on my soul for buying another dynamic. Besides, my MB Quart purchase was really your fault, team ortho.
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post #5456 of 19952
10/25/08 at 6:39pm
man, those mb quarts are always so tempting when surfing "that" auction site.
they are so cheap, and the drivers would probably be perfect for my spare float frame.
i almost caved in when one of those "hand built prototypes" showed up, almost for free... must not buy more dynamics, must not buy more dynamics
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post #5457 of 19952
10/25/08 at 9:02pm
Thread Starter 
Since the sound of these old orthos is pretty much DIY (Damp It Yerself), there's room for all tastes and opinions. If you don't like one, damp/dot it differently. If you still don't like it, swap it for a different one or try your luck in the HP/YH-3 lottery.

One nice thing about this thread is that everyone's hip to the dirty secret of production variation in a maker's "affordable" lines-- and sometimes TOTL-- and if someone hears something different in a phone whose sound up til then was consistent, it almost always turns out to be a real difference in the 'phones, as we've just found, again, with the T50RP.

Rubber yardsticks abound. Fortunately, we've all learned enough about this type of headphone that we can usually, not always, DIY our way around production variations and our own tastes and the particular abilities of our amps and sources. This flexibility is something I think you'll only find in this family of headphones. Love it now but find yourself souring 6 months down the road? Pop it open, rearrange something, and continue the affair. Try that with a SWMBO, heh heh.

No, better not.

As always, there are no guarantees, which was fine back when a YH-1 was $40 but not so slick at $140, so smart orthodynamicisti get in the habit of going into a evaluative crouch, the better to examine, compare, get control of one's appetites, and buy carefully when the opportunity pops.

F2D, thanks for bringing us Tomek's photos. Great stuff.
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post #5458 of 19952
10/26/08 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust2D View Post



I name it the EGG mod, care to guess why?
That looks over cooked to me, but I prefer my fried eggs over easy! Looks like a great mod though Tomek.
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post #5459 of 19952
10/26/08 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan View Post
That looks over cooked to me, but I prefer my fried eggs over easy! Looks like a great mod though Tomek.
I should call it a breakfast mod...

bitum made miracles in this mod
it is absorbing driver self vibrations , and we are simply able to hear it
The sound is more pure, with better black background.
I can listen to the headphones with
higher vol - probably distortion become lower.

I see one difference in my mod, most of you use felt as a better material.
In my opinion the yh 1000 scheme , where back wave absorbing layer has two density work better than felt.

Any way, Ludoo should check this mod
because I can't belive that his hp-3 sound better than yh100

For the end, you must guys check by your self what thicknes of back layer is the best for you,my friend yh100 for exampel sounds differently than my model, so the same mod doesn't has to sound on every headphones the same.
have a goog fun with this mod


ps.
sorry for my english mistakes that I made describing the photos
It was late ,when I was doing it.

take care
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post #5460 of 19952
10/26/08 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomek.W. View Post
,my friend yh100 for exampel sounds differently than my model, so the same mod doesn't has to sound on every headphones the same.
It seems that orthos are like snowflakes.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Yamaha Stereo Headphones
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Fostex T50RP Closed Ear Stereo Headphones
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