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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 1488

post #22306 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREQ View Post

 

I've concluded that the implementation of ear pads is even more crucial than good damping.

I've been playing around with many different ear pads and materials that i've got lying around.

Old flat grado foam pads for example, give a very clear bass light sound. Scarily gradoish. (closed using my damping scheme).

Various pleather pads all drastically boost the bass response. 

 

So I think I might need to create my own earpad with fabric and open cell foam on the inner/middle circumference and pleather on the outer circumference.

Hopefully this will give the best of both. 

I ran across some round pads from an ebay seller that had fabric below and pleather on the top half surface , but i cannot recall which they were, It bothered me so much i sealed the fabric with plasti-dip, if i can find which they were I will at least post whether or not they were of use in your particular config.

All this Dual/Magnat talk is getting me excited again.

 Got some HM5 pads on the 830's but they seal up too well and create a suction. I did seal the driver perimeter to the baffle though. Managed to get great bass and tuning doing that. I'll look for another similar shell and try a driver transplant to make a fake Magnat/Dual headphone .

 they were actually nice pads.

 

Found them way back in 2012.

These pretty sure. See the closeup there is fabric lower, pleather upper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-Cushion-Pads-FOR-AKG-K518-K-518-DJ-LE-Headphones-/261365547033?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3cda99c019


Edited by nick n - 1/2/14 at 6:51pm
post #22307 of 23459

So in order to clean my room up, I had to complete a few of my halted DIY projects... they just took too much spaces with headphones in pieces and parts. So, those SawaFujI drivers in the AKG K271mkII. I think AKG wins the king of expensive yet cheap plastic construction. Not sure if the mechanical auto-mute device is supposed to be the redeeming factor. It doesn't work all the time, but I guess it's fun.
 

Since the cups were of such bad plastic, I damped it down with duct seal putty in the center area and plasticine around the rims. That aught to do it. After applying some cloth material and wood veneer over those somewhat sticky materials (specially the duct seal). Now the cups are...

the good part: doesn't ring plastic all over nearly as bad

the bad part: the cup interior surface is now rather flat, with very little depth, but large nonetheless.

 

Threw in some angel hair for good measure; with only the empty cups these 'headphones' did nothing but treble. As expected of tweeters.

Now the oddity is that I have pretty sharp highs (too much?), I've achieved sub bass, but the sound sound balance is just off. I'm guessing a lack of mid bass and parts of the midrange... I'll have to eventually dig out my measuring kit.

 

Another issue, it feels, is channel imbalance. I did have to rewire the internal wiring and due to terrible workability conditions (these shells are just so unpleasant to work with). Maybe it's that, then I can just resolder a few joints.

But it feels like there's phase imbalance. Am I going crazy?! for both sides I did wire

-Live wire to top pin of driver

-Ground wire to bottom pin of driver.

Am I supposed to alternate for the two drivers?

 

No pictures for the moment but aye... it's better than before but still not enjoyable. At worst I am dropping dynamics in these.


Edited by kalbee - 1/2/14 at 9:18pm
post #22308 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post

 

No pictures for the moment but aye... it's better than before but still not enjoyable. At worst I am dropping dynamics in these.

 

But we need pictures :beerchug:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

 

 Got some HM5 pads on the 830's but they seal up too well and create a suction. I did seal the driver perimeter to the baffle though. Managed to get great bass and tuning doing that. I'll look for another similar shell and try a driver transplant to make a fake Magnat/Dual headphone .

 they were actually nice pads.

 

 

Did you achieve that fantastic soundscape as well? It is one of the best qualities of these cans, to just close the eyes and become immersed in the music.

post #22309 of 23459

Hm, just got those Smela TDS-16s I mentioned a while ago, it appears they're the 40 ohm version (H-16-40C), and the emblems on the cups have black lettering instead of white. 

 

Condition is... well almost perfect, but the headband is a tad wrinkled, I guess from all the years these sat in storage? Normally that wouldn't be a problem, except this headband is stiff as a board. No, seriously, the headband is ROCK HARD. Even holding it over the heater vents in the house for a while didn't help soften it. It's kind of absurd, especially when the pads (which appear to be made of the same material) are actually pretty soft. Everything else is perfect.

 

Sound is pretty bizarre; it's exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. Most impressions said that it was very Grado-like and had rough, dirty highs, but I'm just not hearing that at all. It basically sounds like any other vintage ortho; punched up treble extremes, a hole in the upper midrange, mostly flat bass with decent control; a little farty. However.. yeah, they are VERY fast. Much moreso than expected, better than the YH-1 and maybe even the RP18. It's just so odd, because with speed you come to expect prominent and/or harsh treble, and these have basically no treble at all. Couple that with the classic orthodynamic smoothness and you have something that, while pleasant to listen to, leaves a bit to be desired as far as neutrality goes and can sound a bit veiled at times. 

 

Another thing about these that surprised me was their size; they're a lot smaller than they look in pictures. In person, they're about the size of a Beyerdynamic DT1350, with thinner cups. The cable is flat, and quite thin. Similar to a stiffer, glossier IEM cable. 

 

Overall, these cans were absolutely nothing like what I was expecting, a complete barrel of surprises, but to me more of an interesting curiosity than anything else; not something I'm all that interested in holding onto. However, I can definitely understand why people are so crazy about these old things, they have great bass slam and are generally awesome for music listening. 

 

Pictures will come soon, I'm a bit busy right now.

 

Cheers.


Edited by takato14 - 1/3/14 at 11:33pm
post #22310 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludoo View Post
 

As promised, I took pics last night while modding Kabeer's HP50s. Here is a guide on how to replicate my mod, with a slight difference at the end for the bassy versions. All pics are clickable to get the large size images.

1. Find the baffle clips
=================

The first thing you have to do is find the clips that keep the baffle locked in place. In the following pic I have inserted three pieces of paper in my HP3s to pinpoint the clips locations.



Finding them is pretty easy, and you don't have to destroy the pads to do so: use the above pic as reference; rotate the cup so it's in the middle of its range of motion; drag a small screwdriver along the baffle edge lightly pressing it down; when you don't feel the baffle resisting, press down slightly and cut the sticky tape with the screwdriver.

Edit: the single entry HP-50 variants have additional clips near the cable entry and exit points. An image of the baffle of an HP-50 is here.

2. Remove the tape covering the baffle edge
=================================

Now for the most boring part of the mod: the adhesive tape is slightly larger than the baffle, with the result of keeping it glued to the cup. Using the same small screwdriver, go along the baffle circumference and push the tape towards the center of the baffle so as to free it. Do it lightly, and push it only the minimum necessary. In the following pic you can see the partially liberated baffle on top, and the tape still glueing it to the cup on the bottom.



3. Remove the baffle
================

You are now ready to open the phones. Do it gently, as you would not want to break the plastic, or worse letting the drivers fall down and break. Keep in mind they are not fixed to the baffle, so as soon as you open the cups they will fall out.

With the small screwdriver you used earlier, press the clips holding the baffle towards its centre, then apply some leverage to raise it. You might need to hold onto the pads to keep the baffle raised until you have unlocked all three clips. Once the baffle is raised, gently wiggle it until the bottom part (where the cable enters the cup) comes away free. Again, do it gently near a horizontal surface, with something soft beneath to catch the driver if it falls down.



4. Preparing the main damping layer
===========================

Grab some thick felt, I used Smeggy's felt which as you can see is very thick.

Edit: for the bass-light versions (usually the HP-50 variants), keep the stock foams and use a light, dense felt in place of Smeggy's thick felt. An image of the damping layers for the bass-light versions is here, keep in mind that the thick felt at the bottom of the pic is only used as a comparison against the damping scheme for bass-heavy versions (the one described below), and is not used for bass-light versions.



Place it flat on a table, place the cup on top of it, and draw a circle.



Cut the circle of felt on the inside of the line you just draw, as the cups are smaller inside than out. You might need to trim it a bit to make it fit, but don't trim too much as it's better to press its edges firmly to make it fit so it will stay snugly in place. Place the circle of felt in the earcup and mark the positions of the four supporting posts.



Remove the disc and cut out the four holes for the posts. In my HP3s I used a sharp xacto knife (remember, don't drag it on the felt but press it down with a lot of force to make small incisions, or it will take you all night to cut the holes), for the HP50s I used a hole puncher instead which is way faster.



5. Damp the earcups
===============

Grab a small fluffy ball of cotton wool and damp the cavity in the back of the earcups. I think you could also use bluetak though I don't like the sticky mess it makes. Don't use too much cotton wool, just enough so that the felt does not flex in the center.



Now insert the thick felt disc. Be careful that the cotton wool does not move. Press the disc edges firmly with your fingers so it does not move and stays reasonably flat. You should be able to clearly see the four posts lined up with the top surface of the felt disc.



6. Tuning
================================

If you are lucky enough to have one of the "bass heavy" variants like my HP3, add a thin disc of dense woolen felt on top of the thick one (edit: if you have a bass-light version, add one or more thin discs over the stock foam, which in turn goes over a thin layer that dampens the earcup vents). I cut a smaller disc, about the size of the SFI drivers (36mm) that mostly fills the space between the four posts. You can try changing the material and size of this disc to tune the sound of your headphones.

7. Close the phones
===============

Fit the baffle back by inserting it first at the bottom, where the cable and cable stopper are. You need some force to close it, and you should hear the clips snapping back in place. If they don't, push them gently towards the baffle edge with the small screwdriver, then try again.

 

8. Addendum

==========

 

The above was written before Kabeer and I developed our theory of "differential damping". It still works well as a starting point for bass heavy phones, but often you end up overdamping them slightly. What you need to do in that case -- and what you should also do for bass light HP3/HP50 using lighter felts -- is cut a hole in the disc right next to the driver, the one made of thin felt not the one made of thick felt damping the cups. Shaping the hole, making it larger or smaller, allows you to fine tune your damping.

 

As for cables, the old Yamaha cables often give a dark sound which does not help with the orthos' natural tendency of muting treble. The best "normal" (meaning not snake oil or expensive) cable we've found is Mogami mini quad: it increases detail and clarity and gives a slight treble boost, and will set you back only a few euros/dollars per phone.

 

Final words of advice: always use a pair of phones as reference, as it will be impossible to judge your changes to the damping scheme otherwise; always use natural fibers, synthetic felts modify the sound in unpleasant ways.

Thank you so very much. I got an old hp-3 and you helped me open it. I'll reform it and hopefully dont break it :)

post #22311 of 23459

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent View Post
 

 

Did you achieve that fantastic soundscape as well? It is one of the best qualities of these cans, to just close the eyes and become immersed in the music.

Yeah  but the pad suction is bothersome so will swap out for the Creative Soundblaster ones which look close to the stock. But nicer.

 This driver sits on 3 tabs raised behind the plane of the baffle face bit, and the baffle hole is a bit smaller than the driver, but just around on the edge of that baffle hole is another ring of holes.

 This lets the driver I have in the 830's to breathe a bit better, since these are the lastest of that model with hoels right out to the very edge of the driver, and the metal plates front and rear to concentrate the fields.

In addition I sealed the driver perimeter to the baffle with newplast ( I should have used Fatmat/Dynamat rings i think ) since the stock setup used foam pressure only to keep it held tight, and blocked those outer rings of holes on the baffles to make a bit more of a bass lens effect.

Whether or not it worked, heck they sound reallly nice is all that matters.

post #22312 of 23459

All the way on page 5, what's happening to this place. Did anyone here pick up those Fostex T20 V1 that were mislabeled in the auction as a T-10. Missing badges of course. Now figured out....a mystery dweller. Good excuse for a bump.


Edited by nick n - 1/7/14 at 6:48pm
post #22313 of 23459

I think so. Someone did mention grabbing them a few pages back based on the recommendation.

 

As for the pictures on my weird SFI/AKG transplant... those will have to wait till I figure something more worthy maybe. They sound weird to say the least. But somewhat pleasing since they do carry a lot of clarity with them, at the price of completely smeared mid bass. Haven't put my hands into that the past few days, the cold doesn't encourage me into tinkering X_X

post #22314 of 23459

That reminds me, I have an unfinished SFI/Sextett transplant that's been sitting around for ages... ugh I hate working those AKG shells...

post #22315 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post
 

All the way on page 5, what's happening to this place. Did anyone here pick up those Fostex T20 V1 that were mislabeled in the auction as a T-10. Missing badges of course. Now figured out....a mystery dweller. Good excuse for a bump.

I recommended it to headfier RUMAY408 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/420490/show-us-your-vintage-headphones/1005#post_9954364

He's super happy with them.

post #22316 of 23459

Unfortunately one of the drivers of my HP-3 I was restoring is broken.

I don't want to see this headphone any more ><

I'm selling the other driver for 30 bucks plus 15 of shipping. The whole headphone without the cables and the broken driver is 50+20.

Send me PM.

 

I'm very sad, the soundstage and clarity of this headphone is very impressive.

 

pics with the unfortunate: https://picasaweb.google.com/112993971979944365858/20140108


Edited by YuriMetal - 1/8/14 at 12:46am
post #22317 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriMetal View Post
 

Unfortunately one of the drivers of my HP-3 I was restoring is broken.

I don't want to see this headphone any more ><

I'm selling the other driver for 30 bucks plus 15 of shipping. The whole headphone without the cables and the broken driver is 50+20.

Send me PM.

 

I'm very sad, the soundstage and clarity of this headphone is very impressive.

 

pics with the unfortunate: https://picasaweb.google.com/112993971979944365858/20140108

Ignoring the fact that that's quite steep for 'spare parts' (oh the irony) this is in completely the wrong section.

Please post in the for sale forum.

post #22318 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREQ View Post
 

Ignoring the fact that that's quite steep for 'spare parts' (oh the irony) this is in completely the wrong section.

Please post in the for sale forum.

Sorry I was just relating the progress of my short and unfortunate project.

I already ordered some stuff to recable, new pads, etc. I'm so sad :/

post #22319 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriMetal View Post
 

Sorry I was just relating the progress of my short and unfortunate project.

I already ordered some stuff to recable, new pads, etc. I'm so sad :/


what is broken about that driver? the tabs?

sorry to hear. Some things are salvageable though so that is why i was wondering what happened?

 

Page 5 again, so I am bumping this thread back to the top with an interesting hybrid Dynamic and Heil AMT driver.  It's that AMT driver that is interesting and worthy i think of posting up.

All i saw I guess there could be more in depth info if one was to look further

http://stereos.about.com/od/Audio-Shows/ss/CES-2014-New-Audiophile-Headphones_7.htm

  Change that dynamic out for a stock undamped HP-1/YH-1 driver :beerchug: 

post #22320 of 23459
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post
 


what is broken about that driver? the tabs?

sorry to hear. Some things are salvageable though so that is why i was wondering what happened?

 

Page 5 again, so I am bumping this thread back to the top with an interesting hybrid Dynamic and Heil AMT driver.  It's that AMT driver that is interesting and worthy i think of posting up.

All i saw I guess there could be more in depth info if one was to look further

http://stereos.about.com/od/Audio-Shows/ss/CES-2014-New-Audiophile-Headphones_7.htm

  Change that dynamic out for a stock undamped HP-1/YH-1 driver :beerchug: 


Hmmmm Oppo projecting a grand to 1200 bucks a copy. No Thanks.

 

I've always wondered what a Heil would be like in a headphone. If they ever come out to play I may have to have a listen to those.

 

Music Hall waylayed me with the Stax "earspeaker" jargon. Dolt writer attribs that to Cardas, he should be ashamed (so should Cardas for that matter).

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