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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 148

post #2206 of 19952
4/15/08 at 12:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyre
Maybe it could be attributed to it's unique magnet perforations, I dunno.
It is interesting, now that you mention it, that the T10 and T50 have the most-open magnet structures of any Fostex isodynamic, and they're the cheapest and most expensive of the original 1978 line.
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Yamaha Stereo Headphones
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post #2207 of 19952
4/15/08 at 1:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post
It is interesting, now that you mention it, that the T10 and T50 have the most-open magnet structures of any Fostex isodynamic, and they're the cheapest and most expensive of the original 1978 line.
What about the T30?
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post #2208 of 19952
4/15/08 at 1:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericj View Post
What about the T30?
The T30 and the SS-100 come in second, I'd think. Thin vertical slits in a solid ferrite disk:



FOSTEX T10 PHOTO BY TYRE



.
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post #2209 of 19952
4/16/08 at 1:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post
I hope they are too. If the earpads are circular, they're the good ones. Rounded-off rectangle is bad.

I'll let you know if you're missing anything by not having a T10. I'll bet the T10 is much less efficient than the T20v2.
Thanks. The T20v2 is the most efficient full-sized headphone I have, the others being inefficient AKGs. Still waiting on the T40, but the specs say it is less efficient. The specs also say they have different frequency ranges, the T40v1 only extending to 25kHz. I wonder why that is, since I thought they use the same (possibly differently tuned) drivers.

So it turns out my T20v2 is missing the "headpad" and the T40v1 is missing the cable. Anyone know where I can purchase these items sans headphones? I found a link to the cable on the Fostex USA website that is broken.

Edit: Forgot to include my initial impressions. The manual says "Firm lows and delicate highs." If by that they mean bloated crazy amounts of bass and not much treble, they are right. These phones better not have been used in studios for their neutrality and flat frequency response, because they just don't got 'em. I plan to spend a bit more time getting to know them before attempting any mods, though. I'm also afraid I'll damage the somewhat fragile and not very elastic pads.
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post #2210 of 19952
4/16/08 at 1:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
Thanks. The T20v2 is the most efficient full-sized headphone I have, the others being inefficient AKGs. Still waiting on the T40, but the specs say it is less efficient. The specs also say they have different frequency ranges, the T40v1 only extending to 25kHz. I wonder why that is, since I thought they use the same (possibly differently tuned) drivers.
They use the same magnets but the diaphragm is different. tighter or thicker or something. Damping is also different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
So it turns out my T20v2 is missing the "headpad" and the T40v1 is missing the cable. Anyone know where I can purchase these items sans headphones? I found a link to the cable on the Fostex USA website that is broken.
The head pad is kinda worthless and you'd be better off with one of those fridge handle wraps that some people have used to soften headbands before. Or a beyer "pro" headband pad (which is vinyl rather than leather). Or you could just get used to the rubber headband.

Anyway, the fostex online store's listing of headphone parts is here:

LiteCommerce online store builder - Fostex Headphones

They list "head pad assembly" at $18.90. That can't possibly be right. It's worth maybe $1.89. Tell you what, I'll give you the pad from my T40 for half what they're asking. Maybe they're referring to the whole headband?

Looks like the T20RP (what we call T20v2) cable is out of stock. Bummer. Perhaps wualta can tell us whether the MkII cable is compatible? No wait, that's also out of stock. Call fostex and ask 'em when they're going to get cracking and stock some cables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
Edit: Forgot to include my initial impressions. The manual says "Firm lows and delicate highs." If by that they mean bloated crazy amounts of bass and not much treble, they are right. These phones better not have been used in studios for their neutrality and flat frequency response, because they just don't got 'em. I plan to spend a bit more time getting to know them before attempting any mods, though. I'm also afraid I'll damage the somewhat fragile and not very elastic pads.
Yeah, that midbass hump in the T20 needs some serious damping. search this thread for 'joann' for an sku number for the "superfelt" that may be available at a joann fabric & crafts store near you, or their web store.
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post #2211 of 19952
4/16/08 at 2:22am
Thread Starter 

EDIT: Ericj got his response in whilst I was dreamily typing mine. Most of our answers agree to within the limits of experimental error.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
the T40v1 only extending to 25kHz.

Only 25kHz?? Crikey! is that all?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
I thought they use the same (possibly differently tuned) drivers.

They do look exactly the same. They sure don't sound the same, though. I don't even think the magnets are the same strength.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
So it turns out my T20v2 is missing the "headpad"..

Not important, really.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
.. and the T40v1 is missing the cable. Anyone know where I can purchase these items sans headphones?

Right now cords aren't in stock. When they are, it'll cost about $15 to get one, but of course you can simply borrow the one from the T20.

LiteCommerce online store builder - Fostex Headphones

If you have a local Fostex distributor/dealer, call 'em and see if the cords are a stocked item.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
These phones better not have been used in studios for their neutrality and flat frequency response, because they just don't got 'em.

You're right, they're not flat and neutral, and they were designed that way. A mixdown is never done on headphones. Headphones are used by the talent to monitor the other tracks while they're laying down their own. So a studio headphone will have a smooth but shaped (ie, deliberately non-flat) response to emphasize (usually) voice frequencies.

This is why converting these studio 'phones to audiophile use is such fun: You aren't supposed to have these! and you aren't supposed to like 'em, neither!

Besides, typical dynamic 'phones wouldn't stand a chance of making it over to the audiophile side because they don't respond to simple mods the way isodynamics do. The T20v2 doesn't make it easy, but it's hard to go wrong. The key is simply getting the right materials.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
I'm also afraid I'll damage the somewhat fragile and not very elastic pads.

Are yours all crusty and stiff? Usually Fostex pads are extra-tough and can be pulled on and off with confidence.


Edited by wualta - 10/16/10 at 5:58pm
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post #2212 of 19952
4/16/08 at 2:51am
The T20v2 is sitting perfectly fine on my head even without any padding, without too much discomfort. I kind of just want it for aesthetic reasons/a sense of the whole. I feel like I'm talking Feng Shui mumbo jumbo.

And yeah, I noticed the cables were out of stock, too. I'll call them up later, because I'm busy this week and lazy in general, and I can always just swap parts between the two.

Is this 35% wool felt the one you were referring to?
35% Wool Felt 36" W. - MANY COLORS

If so, I tried looking up another store, which happens to have different ratios of wool to rayon for cheaper: Wool Felt Squares - Erica's Craft & Sewing Center

Only issue is thickness. How thick is the felt from Jo-Ann's?
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post #2213 of 19952
4/16/08 at 3:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Only 25kHz?? Crikey! is that all?
Not only that, my amp only goes to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
You're right, they're not flat and neutral, and they were designed that way. A mixdown is never done on headphones. Headphones are used by the talent to monitor the other tracks while they're laying down their own. So a studio headphone will have a smooth but shaped (ie, deliberately non-flat) response to emphasize (usually) voice frequencies.

This is why converting these studio 'phones to audiophile use is such fun: You aren't supposed to have these!

Besides, typical dynamic 'phones wouldn't stand a chance of making it over to the audiophile side because they don't respond to simple mods the way isodynamics do. The T20v2 doesn't make it easy, but it's hard to go wrong. The key is simply getting the right materials.
Good to know, if I ever want to record vocals instead of the usual scratching away on that fiddle of mine.

Quote:
Are yours all crusty and stiff? Usually Fostex pads are extra-tough and can be pulled on and off with confidence.
No, they're really soft. It's just that when I tried pulling one off, it stayed kind of stretched for awhile. If you say there's no problem, then there's no problem.
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post #2214 of 19952
4/16/08 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
The T20v2 is sitting perfectly fine on my head even without any padding, without too much discomfort. I kind of just want it for aesthetic reasons/a sense of the whole. I feel like I'm talking Feng Shui mumbo jumbo.
really? because i think it looks silly too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
Is this 35% wool felt the one you were referring to?
35% Wool Felt 36" W. - MANY COLORS

If so, I tried looking up another store, which happens to have different ratios of wool to rayon for cheaper: Wool Felt Squares - Erica's Craft & Sewing Center

Only issue is thickness. How thick is the felt from Jo-Ann's?
As far as we know, the only 35% wool felt that joann sells is what we've been calling superfelt.

1/16" sounds about right but i don't really know for sure.

JoAnn was suggested purely because it's a national chain with a web store, and because i discovered the superfelt there by accident and caused a lot of confusion until wualta finally got his hands on my pro 30 and my felt and determined that the felt i was using was far denser than most.

For most orthos, you just need cheap craft felt, which you can even get at walmart. Very bassy orthos like the yh-100 and t20v2 need more density, and the stuff i stumbled upon at joann seems to do the trick, sometimes in two layers.

The 35% stuff you found is probably the same stuff or very similar. And it's cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
No, they're really soft. It's just that when I tried pulling one off, it stayed kind of stretched for awhile. If you say there's no problem, then there's no problem.
Quite normal for the newer fostex pads. The collar stretches out and deforms, but a few hours later it's back to normal.
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post #2215 of 19952
4/16/08 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
Edit: Forgot to include my initial impressions. The manual says "Firm lows and delicate highs." If by that they mean bloated crazy amounts of bass and not much treble, they are right. These phones better not have been used in studios for their neutrality and flat frequency response, because they just don't got 'em. I plan to spend a bit more time getting to know them before attempting any mods, though. I'm also afraid I'll damage the somewhat fragile and not very elastic pads.
I like how un-modded T20V2 sounds. It has a very midrangy involving sound and lots of bass. Treble is there but it's unasgressive and that allows for long listening with out fatigue. I am yet to mod them but can never find an 2 free hours to do concentrate on that.

My ericj modded YH-1 have flat frequency response and superb transients while retaining T20V2 good qualities. So I believe that modding them will make them into superb headphones.
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post #2216 of 19952
4/16/08 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust2D View Post
I like how un-modded T20V2 sounds. It has a very midrangy involving sound and lots of bass. Treble is there but it's unasgressive and that allows for long listening with out fatigue. I am yet to mod them but can never find an 2 free hours to do concentrate on that.

My ericj modded YH-1 have flat frequency response and superb transients while retaining T20V2 good qualities. So I believe that modding them will make them into superb headphones.
Thanks for your impressions! I find that the T20v2 stock sounds buttery smooth from top to bottom, with a few spikes here and there that throw the smoothness off. I like its attempt at an honest, direct presentation of sound given the skewedness of its frequency response. It has strong impact, too. I'm a bit of a treble and detail enthusiast, as a violinist, so I'll make sure to try out mods soon.
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post #2217 of 19952
4/16/08 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
As I've said before, the T20v2 is worthy of respect. It's a real professional tool, built to last in a studio environment, and as HFer RedLeader showed us, able to be completely disassembled in the field, right down to the diaphragm. The fact that it can be modified with simple materials to have audiophile-quality sound is a lucky break that's due to the inherent simplicity of the driver's transfer curve.

In fact, it's that inherent linearity that makes it possible to get some enjoyment out of the T20v2 as-is, even with the massively nonflat frequency response.

What bugs me most about the stock T20 is the weakness of the top two octaves. In stock form, you really can't get a taste of the "speed" of which this little driver is capable. Violinists will want to hear those upper partials, so don't forget the reflex dot if there's something missing after the main damping is sorted out.

Very important in the T20v2 to hold any damping materials firmly against the driver, since the air will try to go anywhere but through the dense tangle.

Couldn't hurt to line the entire inner cup with thin felt. Not saying the improvement will be in any way major, just that it couldn't hurt.

Random (but related) Thought: Someday someone should follow PDOT's lead and remove the factory damping film (if that's possible without making a complete mess) and build the damping scheme back up from scratch.

ADDENDUMB: The T10 is very pleasant and smooth... and bassy, but not in a horrid peaky uncouth way. Just tilted downward, as so many stock iso/orthos are, toward the treble. The treble is there, it just seems v e r y f a r a w a y. The slightly-busted Stax SR-30 I recently picked up beats it. Interestingly, it's a little more efficient than the T50. My real beef with it is wearing comfort-- the thing really clamps hard. Should be an easy mod, though, and I'd recommend it heartily as a good starter iso... except that it's rare. I had to beat off a passel of rabid Fostex fans to get this one. Sigh. For those who haven't seen a T10, here's a photo from the auction. I couldn't take a better one myself, so I'm stealing this one.

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post #2218 of 19952
4/17/08 at 6:27am
Has anyone successfully housed up and run the SFI drivers yet? Mine just came and I'm getting practically zero output from them out of a headphone socket.

-edit-

Ran them from the speaker amp and they sounded pretty good. That is to say, I had them cupped in my hands trying to keep a balanced level of seal, they needed a lot of power and were treble happy. But defo the potential in there to crush the DR100 drivers with some time and effort. They fit, almost. 1-2mm bigger and they'd friction lock in place. Shouldn't need much glue then the time comes.
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post #2219 of 19952
4/17/08 at 12:07pm
Thread Starter 
Just quarantine that backwave (damp any vents, make airtight seals, etc) and get that diaphragm as close to the ear as possible.. fingers crossed..

Puzzled why there's little output from a headphone socket, but maybe that problem will sort itself out when they're mounted.
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post #2220 of 19952
4/17/08 at 12:12pm
There was no efficiency rating posted on the auction specs. Maybe these are really made for speaker tap amplification, in the several watts range. Still, a 4 pin XLR pigtail isnt hard to work with.
Mounting them up temp style just now.
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