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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 1435

post #21511 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDR30 View Post

 

The HP50, one of my favourite headphones when properly damped. If your HP50 sounds dull or mediocre (often the HP50A and HP50S), this could be the culprit that should be removed:

 

 

The fibre filter in front of the driver. Talk about a veil...

 

I've a measurement here (1/3 oct smoothing).

 

 

It shows the difference between having and not having the white disc in front of the driver. The disc seems thus to exist mainly to repress the signature Yamaha upper bass hump, though it has a slight effect on the treble as well.


Edited by vid - 4/26/13 at 12:43pm
post #21512 of 23549

I still think the DT48 is a bit honky, but that midrange is something memorable (good or bad, that's up to you). It's probably because of the drops in the bass and lower treble, so the mids just stick out very much and the upward slope of the upper mids makes the vocals sound exaggeratingly (is that a word?) articulate. 

post #21513 of 23549

Yeah, I guess that's also why the LCD-2 would supposedly output loudspeaker-like deep bass and yet sound pretty dark and project a narrow SS.......more bass = less mids/SS, cruel world.

 

You can easily mod a sintered HP1/YH1 with akasa/acoustipack foam and get it to output fairly loud deep bass but it will never sound as percussive, articulated and "thick" as the aniso HP1 or the YH100(whose drivers are pretty much 50% thicker).

 

I can only imagine how breathtaking DNB must sound on the LCD-2.....but there's also the weight issue as stronger magnets necessarily weight more as well AFAIK and I already find the YH100 unbearable, let alone the aniso HP1(compared to the sintered HP1/YH1) so +600g is just completely out there IMHO.


Edited by leeperry - 4/26/13 at 3:07pm
post #21514 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

 

I've a measurement here (1/3 oct smoothing).

 

 

It shows the difference between having and not having the white disc in front of the driver. The disc seems thus to exist mainly to repress the signature Yamaha upper bass hump, though it has a slight effect on the treble as well.

 

I'm only seeing one trace there. Did I miss something?

post #21515 of 23549

Hutnicks can you please post pictures of the pads you got the extreme bass from ? Always interested in pad configurations.

 

Between supposed driver variations ( low or high bass levels ) and particular damping treatments there must be a fair difference between all the mods on the HP-50.  I can say that my last mod version is well bassy with very smooth mids and decent detailing. Though the fabricy stuff i use is not all that common.

 

One things for sure that white damping disc is %100 the first thing someone should lose.  Another thing I have done , and the pad lips folded over hide this, is I took electrical tape around the cup edges and pressed it over the seam all around each side to seal it as much as possible with a tiny notch for cable entry points. ( it's a recabled 50A ) 

Pretty sure I also Newplasted around the driver mount seam too.


Edited by nick n - 4/26/13 at 5:45pm
post #21516 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

Hutnicks can you please post pictures of the pads you got the extreme bass from ? Always interested in pad configurations.

 

Between supposed driver variations ( low or high bass levels ) and particular damping treatments there must be a fair difference between all the mods on the HP-50.  I can say that my last mod version is well bassy with very smooth mids and decent detailing. Though the fabricy stuff i use is not all that common.

 

One things for sure that white damping disc is %100 the first thing someone should lose.  Another thing I have done , and the pad lips folded over hide this, is I took electrical tape around the cup edges and pressed it over the seam all around each side to seal it as much as possible with a tiny notch for cable entry points. ( it's a recabled 50A ) 

Pretty sure I also Newplasted around the driver mount seam too.


Funnily enough I just read this as Lindsey Stirling pops on and pounds my ears out :)

 

I'm really bad about pics (If I'm taking pics I'm not working on the gear:)) But give me a day or so. These are held in by an adhesive (temporarily I hope, should have used UHU for the testing,) at any rate.....

 

Here is a description until then.

 

As the T20 is enormous as are all Fostex orthos, they present a large challenge for my small head. These things are almost circumcranial let alone aural!

 

Started with white insulation / memory foam in 1/4 inch thickness.  With compass and xacto knife cut the first donut to 8.5cm with a 4cm centre hole. This allows it to fit within the inside lip of the enclosure and the 4cm hole just surrounds the driver port. This is held in by double sided tape which I thought was a temp solution. Attempting to pull these off started to tear the foam (no mean feat that this stuff is tough).

 

The second layer Mark I is another 1/4 foam donut cut to 10cm with the same 4cm centre hole. That went over the first donut and was secured (foolishly, need UHU stick bad) with same double sided tape.

 

Third Layer Mark I another 1/4 inch donut this time 10 cm (this coincides with the outer rim diameter of the T20's) with a 6cm inner hole. This size was determined by the minimum size hole my ear can fit in. Hard science at it's best here:) This was of course put over the previous donut and was to be the end result. I intended to make a sort of Velour slip cover to go over the inside and out and close the pads to the phone.

Except I was not really comfortable with the fit. The sound was a little anemic as well but I wanted to see what covering the whole assembly would sound like before making any radical changes, like inserting an open cell foam wedge at the back to conform to the rear of the skulls contour. I never got to that point.

 

As the second point of this exercise was also to create a modular fitting system that could be employed from phone to phone I figured on either trying a half thickness spacer or changing the positions of pads 2 and 3. Being late we went for the pad position swap, adhesive damage be damned.

 

Mark II set up is

Inner pad, exactly as above no change.

Second pad is now the 10cm donut with the 6 cm hole in the centre.

Third pad The 10 Cm donut with the 4 cm hole in the centre.

Inadvertently creating a bass chamber within the pad construction itself. It actually fits better too, as the 4cm hole, being smaller than my ear allows the ear to rest on the foam and create a good seal. This is aided by the clamping force of the T20 itself.

 

 

I still want to try a thin wedge at the rear to make a better seal at the back of the head (remember, small head here, circumcranial headphones, mucho fittment to be done!)

 

The Bass Response, while over the top at the moment can, I believe,  be tamed by selection of pad covering material (Avia polyester track pants are getting a serious look right now in spite of it being cycling season and I should be wearing them !) Velour, impregnated with silicone at the outer rim is getting a look as second choice.

 

 I also may use the insole memory / open cell foam sandwich as a further test for the outer pad. Problem is the insoles are less than 10 cm wide so splicing is needed. Decreasing the second pads inner hole diameter should also allow tuning to be done as this effectively changes the volume of the chamber (bigger aint an option here, believe me! Unless your names Dre).

 

It is supposed to be hot here tomorrow so I'm gong to leave these in a window and hope the adhesive softens. That should allow me to take pics for posting.

 

 

Just as a note. This is about my 8 or tenth go round with pads and Fostii, so I have a lot of experience with open cell foam donuts, Beyer pads stretched to the limit,  chamois et al. This was the motivating factor for the layered modular system.

 

Note on note, has anyone tried shearling as a headphone pad. I just found a bag of offcuts while cleaning:)


Edited by Hutnicks - 4/26/13 at 6:44pm
post #21517 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

Hutnicks can you please post pictures of the pads you got the extreme bass from ? Always interested in pad configurations.

 

Between supposed driver variations ( low or high bass levels ) and particular damping treatments there must be a fair difference between all the mods on the HP-50.  I can say that my last mod version is well bassy with very smooth mids and decent detailing. Though the fabricy stuff i use is not all that common.

 

One things for sure that white damping disc is %100 the first thing someone should lose.  Another thing I have done , and the pad lips folded over hide this, is I took electrical tape around the cup edges and pressed it over the seam all around each side to seal it as much as possible with a tiny notch for cable entry points. ( it's a recabled 50A ) 

Pretty sure I also Newplasted around the driver mount seam too.


Okay you asked for it.

 

1 The three donuts. Not in a finished state (Stuffs murder to cut)

 

 

Pads 3 , 2, and 1 ^

 

This shot is pad 1 and 2 installed

 

 

The black flakes are from the initial mod where the donut was under the stock pad. Bad idea, there is no saving grace for the stock pad. None whatsoever

 

 

^ Pads 1 2 and three installed (sitting loose in this case). Hard to really show the detail here but hopefully the shadow shows the gap.the centre pad creates.

 

What I am noticing is there is actually suction in action here after a long listen, so covering the pads (with the velour these shots are taken on) may well be a necessity.

 

I am still in critical listening mode and the jaw bone is now loosening enough to get a good read on this config before going any further. I am working this one over with the most critcal DAC I have at the moment which is old pclink with the philips 20 bit chip. It borders on shrill with most headphones. The T20's are bright with female vocals and pretty neutral throught the mids, Timpani  a crisp punch.

 

Putting the FiiO e11 into the mix really, really makes a difference. The only other phone I have seen this much change in with an amp is the old Sony MDR V3. Bass here is extended to physical body vibe levels with the right music Anour Brahem's Astounding Eyes Of Rita in particular.

Talking Heads Stop Making Sense has given me a new appreciation for Tina Weymouth.

(Note the E11 is running Low gain and no bass boost here)

Cowboy Junkies , Trinity, Sweet Jane. I use this one simply because I have never, ever heard any system that does not have Margo's sibilance on it. It's here too so I am now convinced it is an artifact of her voice and the ambiosonic mic used in the recording. The spatialization here is very good. I have been to that Church and this config is so far the only one that reminds me of the actual acoustics there.

 

Track 15 Solti Ring , Das Rhengold. I love this as there is quite possibly every single musical attribute you could want in there. This config makes it shine if a little veiled in the complex passages in the midrange

post #21518 of 23549

I never did figure out if you are using the T20 original, or  T20 V2 still with the round drivers I can see in the pictures.

 

That's sure an interesting idea with the extra little chamber area midway in the pad.  So you are planning to cover this with something also then I see. Contact cement maybe? Or will that melt the foam ...

 Really interesting idea thanks for taking the time to get pictures.

 

Sure gets the thoughts rolling, and the pads too!

post #21519 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

I never did figure out if you are using the T20 original, or  T20 V2 still with the round drivers I can see in the pictures.

 

That's sure an interesting idea with the extra little chamber area midway in the pad.  So you are planning to cover this with something also then I see. Contact cement maybe? Or will that melt the foam ...

 Really interesting idea thanks for taking the time to get pictures.

 

Sure gets the thoughts rolling, and the pads too!


Thanks. I needed an excuse to get the camera out, and this is as good as any.

 

The whole idea here is to get as much sound out of the phone without going internal. We are dealing with an acoustic device here after all. I never rule out internal mods, but If a pad change will do the trick I'm all for that. If the over ear guys spent as much time on fittment as the IEM folks, we would have a completely different marketplace than what we have now. Just look at the guys pudding Mr Speakers pads on just about anything right now.

 

The covering ,I think, will only be secured under the second pad inner edge and around the outside. Contact cement works well with this stuff but is really a mess to deal with. Silicone or DAP polyester caulk is a better permanent solution. The outside I want to clamp with a ring. I will probably use a piece of theraband purloined from my local physiotherapist. It comes in wide enough sizes and has good grip and comes in multiple colours. I would ultimately like to come up with a cover that allows swapping in and out of the pads. You never know when some new material or idea will crop up.

 

Still work to be done (allways). I want to try a stiffener under the outer pad to see if the pad is causing distortion of any kind due to vibration. I also still want to shim the back of the pads for a little more head contact. The only downside so far is that the foam is rigid enough that it presses on my reading glasses just at the upper eartip after a while. I think new glasses are the route to go on that one:)

post #21520 of 23549

if you go with a stiffener under the top pad then could you not put a rather thin topper on the disc of memory foam so it will melt over your glasses at the contact points? Make a great seal too.  Dollar stores are good for stuff like that in the form of memory foam makeup pads etc.  Just a thought.

 

Sound over glasses. I see the priorities are in effectbigsmile_face.gif

post #21521 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

 

Bass here is extended to physical body vibe levels with the right music Anour Brahem's Astounding Eyes Of Rita in particular.

Talking Heads Stop Making Sense has given me a new appreciation for Tina Weymouth.

 

Cowboy Junkies , Trinity, Sweet Jane. I use this one simply because I have never, ever heard any system that does not have Margo's sibilance on it. It's here too so I am now convinced it is an artifact of her voice and the ambiosonic mic used in the recording. The spatialization here is very good. I have been to that Church and this config is so far the only one that reminds me of the actual acoustics there.

 

Track 15 Solti Ring , Das Rhengold. I love this as there is quite possibly every single musical attribute you could want in there. This config makes it shine if a little veiled in the complex passages in the midrange

 

Interesting music selection. Talking Heads left my collection with most of the LPs a long time ago, but I've got the Solti Ring on CD. The other ones are strangers to me; sure gonna check them out.

post #21522 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

if you go with a stiffener under the top pad then could you not put a rather thin topper on the disc of memory foam so it will melt over your glasses at the contact points? Make a great seal too.  Dollar stores are good for stuff like that in the form of memory foam makeup pads etc.  Just a thought.

 

Sound over glasses. I see the priorities are in effectbigsmile_face.gif


Those little fun foam sheets work wonders too:) I am waffling as to putting something on top as the pressure on the glasses is indicative of a very good seal and without the glasses I hardly notice the phones are there after a while.The velour alone may suffice.

 

 

Priorities indeed I can hardly wait to run this one by the optometrist. Sure to raise one of her patented "must be a foolish man thing" looks.confused_face_2.gif

post #21523 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDR30 View Post

 

Interesting music selection. Talking Heads left my collection with most of the LPs a long time ago, but I've got the Solti Ring on CD. The other ones are strangers to me; sure gonna check them out.


Stop Making Sense was the pinnacle and the end of the heads. Byrnes voice had finally lost the whiny screechy element and had matured into a polished instrument. The production and arrangement (original version not the myriad extended versions) was economic and impeccable. Largely owing, I believe to Johnathan Demme's involvement. That it could exist at all, given the outright warfare going on between Tina and David is sort of a miracle of pop music.

 

Brahem is just an astounding new experience. I stumbles across him by mistake and just loved his stuff.

 

Trinity was the breakout for the junkies and I still cannot see how it got airplay at the time it did. Not what one would have expected from Canadian Pop music at the time. Slow and deliberate. If the later mature Johnny Cash  (the one that covered Hurt) had been female he would have sounded a lot like Margo Timmins. The album deserves a spot in everyones collection for its uniqueness alone.

 

 Have you heard the Solti Ring bluray edition. The reviewers keep saying it was remastered much better than the CD version. I have not yet heard a "real" person comment on it, though.

post #21524 of 23549
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

No idea. Recording the driver play a tune of fast transients and looking at the resultant waveform is an alternative if one accepts a more perceptual point of view.


I was really just prodding. I started to lose interest in this thread when there was a lot of fuss over ultra high quality damping fabrics.

I haven't read about all your experiments, but I've noted that a lot of newcomers - particularly those who have never listened to a properly done planar for any significant length of time - have a tendency to tune for tonal balance and completely ignore clarity. Usually resulting in a headphone I can't stand to hear.

Yamaha drivers are kinda loose and floppy. See wualta's early comments about phonograph grit noise.

I don't doubt that some technology could be used to damp their motion electrically but mechanically damping them with air pressure works pretty well.

That's why I advise newcomers to damp harder and harder until the bass starts to disappear, then back it off until the bass comes back, and THEN approach tonal balance.

Sent by pneumatic tubes
post #21525 of 23549

^ I'm not sure what your point is, but if it was to question what I've done, the decency would be welcome to put more effort into it, since you admit to not know what it is I do.

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